Chamber and committees

How is the smart meter roll-out progressing across the UK? A lot of constituents have been in touch with me and said, “Oh, I’ve got one; it was installed but it doesn’t work now.” It is really patchy. Some people are able to get them and some are not. Is it best that the smart meter roll-out is being done through energy companies—some of which are going bust at the moment—or would it be better that it is rolled out consistently through DNOs, which have more of an overview of distribution and the grid in a particular region? What I am seeing is just a bit of a mess at the moment.

Going back to hydrogen, are you not concerned that, if the gas grid was up to 20 per cent hydrogen, we would, in effect, be building our dependency on natural gas, with all the price volatilities that we have seen in recent weeks—and, of course, all the carbon as well? Would we not be locking in that infrastructure of high-carbon assets into the 2030s and beyond?

Okay. In terms of your relationship with the UK Climate Change Committee, we discussed during the passage of the UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Continuity) (Scotland) Bill how that was going to work. How does that look now? Do you have a memorandum of understanding? Are you clear about where you can work together and where you have discrete responsibilities?

Thank you. We are certainly debasing it intensely at the moment.

I have a question for Brendan Callaghan, on something completely different. ESS now has an interim strategic plan. Are there key areas that you will focus on in the next year? I am aware that there are particular concerns around the marine environment and compliance with existing laws and regulations, as well as the adequacy of some of our laws, particularly in relation to salmon farming and fisheries licensing. I am also aware that complaints were with the European Commission ahead of Brexit in relation to acoustic deterrent devices, for example, in the marine environment, which I presume will now go nowhere. Are you already focusing on the marine environment area? Or are there other areas that are problematic in terms of compliance and the adequacy of our existing laws and regulations?

I have a question for Professor Jafry on the principles in the Paris agreement and the UNFCCC that deal with the respective capabilities of states. What do the principles mean in practice? Should states that have more capability and more wealth be making a just transition faster than others? How are the principles being interpreted?

It was primarily about whether countries that have more capability and more wealth should be accelerating their just transition.

Scotland has some difficult questions to answer in relation to a just transition. One relates to the transition away from oil and gas. The just transition commissioners were at the Parliament’s Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee recently, and they put a very difficult question to us.

As we are transitioning away from oil and gas, we will still have some residual demand, even if we are keeping to the terms of the Paris agreement. The question was where that oil and gas should come from. As commissioners put it, there are three options. It could come from countries where it is cheapest, such as the middle east; it could come from new sources such as Ghana, which would have the most economic development impact; or it could come from domestic sources.

From a climate justice perspective, where should our residual oil and gas demand be met from in future? I know that that is a hard one.

Good morning to you all. I will pick up on thoughts about the human rights framework and on Jamie Livingstone’s comments about the wellbeing and sustainable development bill. How do we deliver climate justice effectively in Scotland? Who does the governance on that? The Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009 refers to climate justice, but I am thinking about how we enshrine it further in legislation. Who champions it? Alongside the important principles, is there a need for a future generations commissioner or some other body or function to ensure that every public body that has a role to play is delivering?

I am interested in your thoughts about how we take this to the next stage. A useful principle is there, but how do we embed it further in public policy?

I ask Professor Jafry the same question. There is a right to development, which is also important. The question is, what type of development?

Muthi Nhlema, do you have any perspectives on this?