Chamber and committees

I should declare an interest in that I am an associate member of the British Veterinary Association, although not a doctor.

I want to pick up on the third theme, which is about practical considerations, although I think that we have covered some of that already in the answers. We know that it is only 13 months to the guillotine, as it has been described. Could the witnesses give us their reflections on what that means for their organisations and how they anticipate working directly with Government departments, particularly DEFRA?

You are having to review 570 laws. We have heard general concerns about resource and staff implications, but how are you practically trying to work with that challenge in engaging with your members and Government departments, setting up working groups and so on? What does that stakeholder engagement look like for you? These decisions will need to be made if there is a sunset timescale of 13 months, rather than a phased approach being taken or a much more distant deadline being put in place.

That was a useful reflection on the impact. I am interested also in what practical measures you are putting in place, because the clock is really ticking on this.

I am getting the sense that there is not a plan—no one has said to you, “These are the dates by which you need to respond”. Sarah Millar, do you have a view?

If there is time for another question, I would like to ask what your preferred sunset clause is, if you would like there to be a sunset clause at all.

I think that Gareth Hateley said that he wanted the laws to be in place for as long as possible, and I think that Jonnie Hall said 2026. We have had evidence to suggest that that is quite an arbitrary date—it is 10 years after Brexit. Do you have any specific thoughts on when a sunset clause, if there should be a sunset clause at all, should be implemented, or do you think that a phased approach is the best way forward, which means that it is hard to pick a date?

Of the discharges that you know are happening, and which you recognise are problematic and are therefore monitoring, what proportion are deliberate and what proportion are accidental discharges?

So it is totally dependent on rainfall—there is no control over it. You cannot predict when there is going to be a flow from the combined sewer overflows, because it is all dependent on rainfall.

I am sorry to interrupt you. I am aware of the local geography and everything else; I think that the issues are with the main flow. The general point is around compliance. If SEPA writes you a letter like that, what do you do? Do you say, “Well, there’s actually still a problem here, but we have to put it into the investment programme over time,” or do you jump and take action on the—

Good morning. I want to raise the issue of sewage discharge, which has been very high in the public’s mind this year. It does not appear that there is a clear picture on sewage discharge in Scotland. That point was made by Environmental Standards Scotland in its recent sector baseline evidence review, so I have a number of questions about what that picture is in Scotland.

At the moment, only 3 per cent of combined sewer overflows are monitored. Is that enough to get a clear picture?

It might be useful for the committee to get evidence on the work programme on a third of CSOs, including the investment for that and how the work will be scheduled.

I move briefly on to a related issue, which is water quality. Douglas Millican said earlier that Scotland’s water quality is excellent. Despite that, however, Environmental Standards Scotland, as part of its sector review, highlighted the fact that a number of the river basin management plan targets have been missed, and that we still have an issue with barriers to fish and lamprey migration, along with a number of other issues relating to the operation of Scottish Water assets.

How do you prioritise environmental compliance? I give you the example of Loch Venachar. I am aware that SEPA wrote you a letter last month confirming that four of your fish passes, not on the side channel but on the main channel, are not compliant with your permit. You are in effect acting outwith your permit conditions—in other words, you are operating illegally. How seriously do you take environmental compliance?

It is clear that the regulations are about resourcing the applications system in a better way, and I note the move to full cost recovery. The question is: what will they do to performance? According to evidence that the industry has given the committee, it can take seven years for an application to be determined. The whole system is very slow, whether it be applications going to councils, going to the planning division of planning or going through the system of environmental appeals in the Scottish Government. Will these regulations make a significant difference to those timescales for determination? We are in a climate emergency, and we need business certainty. Applications need to be approved or rejected on a reasonable timescale, so will the regulations properly resource the decision-making structure and process?