Chamber and committees

I am asking not just about office-holders but about the public sector landscape in general.

From the previous panel and this panel, we are already getting the idea that people seem fairly content with the existing landscape but are concerned about how it might develop. For example, Rosemary Agnew’s submission said:

“It seems that the need for a Commission/er is often the starting point, rather than being the conclusion of analysis of what the current gaps or shortcomings (or strengths) are.”

Claire Methven O’Brien, your submission says:

“We suggest that a review cycle of existing Commission/er mandates to assess fitness for purpose within a changing landscape is something which Parliament should consider.”

Perhaps we need fewer bodies and the ones that are already there should have greater strength and flexibility in what they are able to deliver and achieve.

That takes me to another part of your submission, Jan Savage, about sunset clauses, which is an issue that I have talked about a lot. You said:

“Sunset clauses which consider whether an issue requires a permanent public body or a short life focus to address, perhaps through the Committee Inquiry system.”

Can you expand on that a bit?

That is interesting. I will open the questioning to colleagues around the table.

That has concluded questions from the committee.

I have one question for Nicola Killean. We obviously have a Minister for Children, Young People and Keeping the Promise and I am just wondering about the relationship that we have with that minister, because the role is quite specific. We do not, for example, have a commissioner for housing, even though we have a Minister for Housing. How do you engage and are there any gaps or overlaps?

Good morning and welcome to the 15th meeting in 2024 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. The first item on our agenda is to continue to hear evidence in relation to our inquiry into Scotland’s commissioner landscape. We are joined by Ian Bruce, Ethical Standards Commissioner; Dr Brian Plastow, Scottish Biometrics Commissioner; David Hamilton, Scottish Information Commissioner; and Lorna Johnston, executive director, Standards Commission for Scotland. I welcome you all to the meeting. I am sure that you will be very helpful to our deliberations. I may direct questions at one individual or ask you collectively; it is up to yourselves whether you want to come in on the back of someone else’s response.

What stimulated the inquiry was, firstly, the rising cost of commissioners, as well as their proliferation. For example, in January we took evidence from the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body on the annual budget round for the current financial year. At that time, we were faced with a 2.6 per cent increase in cash terms in the Scottish budget, which as you know, if you know the gross domestic product deflator, is significantly below the rate of inflation. When we looked at the office-holders, however, we found that the actual funding bids were all significantly in excess of that. For example, the four organisations represented here today made bids as follows: the Scottish Information Commissioner asked for an 8.1 per cent uplift; the Ethical Standards Commissioner for a 13.2 per cent uplift; the Standards Commission for Scotland for a 7.4 per cent uplift; and the Scottish Biometrics Commissioner for 12.4 per cent.

The national health service, the police and so on did not get those kinds of uplifts. Obviously, I have your submissions here but, for the public record, could you say how you feel that those increases are justified at a time of tremendous financial pressure? Who would like to go first? Yes, Brian; you have a fairly small budget, I suppose, although I am interested in hearing from everyone.

Yes. One of the things that you have talked about, for example, is the need to limit the amount of public money being paid by every commissioner for external and internal audit. Those are all cogent points, but I come back to my original point. It just stood out to the committee that there seemed to be quite a significant increase in terms of the allocation of funding to commissioners at a time when more commissioners are in the pipeline. Obviously, that is why we were alerted to this and that is what almost triggered this inquiry, to be perfectly honest with you. Do any other colleagues want to come in?

Again, I could say the same about local government, the police or the NHS. That is the kind of issue that is facing them.

Okay. So, are we gonnae be in a position whereby, as we go forward to the next financial year, we see similar bids or do people feel that things are much more settled in terms of the areas that we are talking about? Ian, do you feel that?