Chamber and committees

Where is the bill coming from? That is the difficulty that I have in making an assessment on the matter. Did the Scottish Government fully review what changes had been made to the bill?

I am just trying to get my head round the changes that have been made. How would you describe them? Would you say that they are fairly minor or superficial? Do you think that there have been any substantive changes since we last discussed the matter?

Good morning, everyone. In our previous session, I was very interested—and I still am—in image-based abuse across the board. I have done a bit of work since that conversation, and I am now convinced that there is a gap in the law in relation to abusive sex-based images, and particularly in relation to consent. I am talking about the sharing of those images and the damage and harm that can be done to children and young people in particular. That is the context.

Alison Penman mentioned that issue specifically. I want to ask her about young people—or however we want to categorise older children.

I noted everything in your submissions about the importance of how you message young people. You would not do that in the same way that you would to adults. I am conscious that most of the work focuses on the risk that is presented by adults. However, we are talking about children. Do you think that there is a gap in the law in relation to the harm that can be done if images are shared? I know that Stuart Allardyce has mentioned that fake images are a live issue. I am not convinced that the law is adequate at the moment. What do you think about that?

Of course, we do not have control over the tech companies that we would like. There is controversy currently around how far the Online Safety Bill goes.

I noted what you said about how to deal with young people and how trauma can be the basis on which people’s behaviour is maybe what it should not be, but there is normalising in schools that is acceptable. Will you come back on that? That is the area in which I think there might need to be stronger messages in the law in relation to the sharing of images because, once images are shared, it is very difficult to get them back.

I know that Stuart Allardyce might want to answer that question, but I will ask Detective Superintendent Martin MacLean what powers Police Scotland has to delete images. I am not even sure that that is in your jurisdiction. The issue is that there is a grey area around whether what we are talking about is actually contrary to the law, but are there any powers on the deletion of images?

They consented to the image, but they did not consent to the sharing. It is the sharing aspect of it that constitutes the offence.

Is it unlawful to share such an image with so many others?

Yes, that is helpful. I do not have any further questions, but other panel members, such as Stuart Allardyce, might want to answer the same question.

It is. Thank you.

I want to follow up on your last sentence, on behaviour that is increasingly seen as normalised. This is borne out by some studies in England, which we do not have in Scotland. I am interested in the victims, who are mainly but not always girls, and the harm that can be done to girls. I imagine that you include that in the broad definition.