Chamber and committees

I was not asking about that. I was just asking whether you accept that there would need to be some representation from the police. Surely there needs to be some police expertise within such an independent body to understand the role of a police officer.

I am just aware of your answers to the questions about the standards to which staff are held compared with police officers—what you have said about that is loud and clear. Do the public make the same distinction when they phone Police Scotland, get a staff member and are not happy about it?

David Kennedy and Chief Superintendent Hay, is there anything in this bill that you fully support and which you think is useful?

That is helpful—thank you. Dr Lennon, is there anything that you want to add?

In cases where police officers go before the court and are not convicted, should any other misconduct issues related to those cases automatically be dropped? I hear what you are saying: you do not want to do things the other way round, as Sharon Dowey has suggested, because it might prejudice a court case. Obviously, we would be talking about a higher court here. If there is no conviction, why should the police continue with a misconduct disciplinary procedure against that police officer? After all, the court has already determined the matter.

I see, but it just seems grossly unfair to be tried for the same offence by the court and by the police. It might be fair enough, if it were not for the issue of timescales. We have heard loud and clear really alarming evidence from Craig Naylor about the level of distress and mental ill health among the officers concerned. Everyone is prepared to defend themselves and deal with the charge against them, but it is the duration that they have to wait. Should there be clear timescales in legislation that Police Scotland has to abide by?

It is not a supplementary—well, it kind of is.

As an alternative model—an independent body—has been raised in the lines of questioning, I ask Dr Lennon what that would look like. Would there be police officers on the independent body? Most professions, rightly or wrongly, police themselves or have some representation. What would the independent body cover? Would it be misconduct or all complaints?

What did you mean when you said that you favour an independent body? Did you mean for whistleblowing?

Good afternoon. I find the responses from David Kennedy and, in fact, David Malcolm about not being told what you have been accused of very interesting, given the previous panel’s remarks about the importance of human rights. It is a fundamental right, even under Scots law, to know what you are being accused of and who your accusers are, but that does not seem to apply here either to staff or to police officers.