Chamber and committees

Yes, I bought a ticket.

I do not necessarily agree that there are barriers. There is an issue of taking advantage of the powers that have been approved—not least by this committee—to enable the different choices that are available, whether they are bus service improvement partnerships, franchising or public ownership. I suspect that Monica Lennon might be asking where the financial investment comes from—for example, if someone wants to own their own fleet, that implies either leasing from somebody else or purchasing with capital.

On what we as a Government can do to help that process, it might be helpful for the committee to know that the powers already exist, as I said, in the regulations that have been passed. For example, on the timetable for authorities that want to pursue franchising—I understand that that is an active and live current issue for Strathclyde Partnership for Transport and that a consultation has just finished—there are steps along the way. The enabling aspects are our responsibility, and I can advise the committee, which will be actively involved in this, about the franchising arrangements transitional process.

The regulations that prescribe the process for transitioning from a deregulated system to a franchise are expected to be laid in early autumn 2024 and to come into force before the end of the year. For franchising, rules and regulations that cover the appointment and remuneration of the arrangements panel members as well as the process that the panel must follow for making decisions in relation to local transport authorities’ franchising proposals are also expected in early autumn 2024, to come into force by the end of 2024.

There is a series of Scottish statutory instruments on appeals, because it is clear that, in the current deregulated market, there are impacts of decisions, particularly on private operators. The regulations on appeals against bus service improvement service standard decisions by the traffic commissioner for Scotland are expected in 2024 and are expected to come into force later in 2024. There are also remaining commencement orders on the enforcement powers in relation to bus service improvement partnerships.

I would not describe those as barriers; I would describe them as necessary next steps—they are not stopping the process as barriers to decision making and the planning that is required. I reassure Monica Lennon that many of the regulatory aspects involved in bus reform have already come through the committee, and that includes the ones that are the next steps.

No. Can we separate out the issues? In the work on the direct award, we are focusing on the operation of the Clyde and Hebridean ferry service. The issues around CMAL, which I think is what you are referring to—and the idea of putting ferries officials and the ferries arm of Transport Scotland into “Ferries Scotland” by joining or merging them with CMAL—are separate issues. If you were to leave Transport Scotland alone and to merge CMAL with CalMac, that in itself gives rise to lots of different questions, and I have just gone through the implications.

I do not think that we would be doing those things in the middle of the process of due diligence. There are other factors that I have not even touched on yet, dare I say. As I know from a previous time as a minister, having brought together four different bodies to form Skills Development Scotland, way back in 2007, 2008 or 2009 or whenever that was, there are pensions issues and a whole load of different other factors, and they must also be considered in the process of a direct award.

I am trying not to confuse things, and if you need explanations later I am happy to provide them offline, but that describes the complexity of the things that are happening, and doing things in order is therefore important.

More vessels are being delivered than was initially anticipated, because the two for the Little Minch are now four, which will have a major impact. I am delighted to say that the MV Loch Indaal launches this weekend. That is an important next step in the delivery of those vessels.

On the SVRP, I am keen that we can move ahead with procurement. Under the pre-election guidance, we are not allowed to make any announcement on that programme, and we do not anticipate such an announcement, before the end of the pre-election period. Ministerial consideration of the business case remains on-going. However, we want to move to procure as soon as we can, in order to make sure that we can deliver within the next two to three years—probably three years—depending on the timescale for the procurement and the response. We are keen to press ahead, so the period might be shortened if it is open procurement; of course, it might be a direct award.

With your agreement, convener, I will bring in Fiona Brown, who has been involved. In Scotland, we have challenges and issues with an integrated ticketing system, because, particularly on the bus side, we are in a deregulated market, so we have to make sure that we take private operators with us on that.

It is fair to say that, in Scotland, zonal ticketing is happening—for example, with the Glasgow tripper—and there are quite a lot of developments, not least on the rail side, in the flexibility of what can be used. Also when it comes to what we are trying to achieve, simplicity of fares is an important strand in encouraging more people to use the public transport system and in the operation of integrated ticketing itself.

Our biggest challenge in Scotland is the technology platform that is needed. The national smart ticketing advisory board was set up specifically to address those issues. It is chaired by an expert in smart ticketing procurement. I think that its final meeting was at the end of May, so I expect the report on how we will achieve that very soon.

Scotland also has challenges in where the customers are and where they will be. Clearly, there are far more people who use their phones and phone technology than previously, in comparison with those of us who prefer a card. I have my flexipass. When it comes to the technology, we also have the saltire card, and the technology around the flexipass is common across different areas. Interestingly, we have just rolled out support for the digital purchase of northern isles ticketing. We are not just waiting for something to happen. Lots of things are happening. It is about how we join that all up. Barcode technology is also a problem for Scotland, comparatively, so we will need to identify how we can help to improve that.

When the report that I mentioned comes, I am sure that the committee will have a keen interest in it, so we can share it with you.

I ask Fiona Brown to come in.

It is too early to say. My officials are engaging with operators and I am keen to engage directly with them, but I have not personally done that since the publication of the report.

No, I am not nervous. I am shocked that you think that canals are a Cinderella. Actually, Mr Fairlie is the lead on Scottish Canals. I certainly do not think that canals are a Cinderella, because the Union canal goes through my constituency, which is why I have recused myself from making ministerial decisions on that.

I am sure that the people at ScotRail are avid watchers of the committee’s meetings. We will make sure that we draw to their attention your concerns and those of Mr Simpson about ticketing.

I will try to answer the question, but I remind everyone that we are in the pre-election period and that whatever happens will depend on the UK Government election. I expect that whoever will form the next UK Government will introduce rail reform legislation.

On the proposed establishment of Great British railways, I would just note that on the day that the election was called, just before I went over to Arrochar for the meeting about the Rest and Be Thankful, I was giving evidence to the select Transport Committee at Westminster on what was the Rail Reform Bill. I think that all political parties at UK level are interested in having an integrated rail body. Alex Hynes, who previously headed up Network Rail and ScotRail, was seconded to take that forward. Obviously, we will have to wait to see what happens after the election.

I am sure that the committee clerks can liaise with the Transport Committee on this, but I and Huw Merriman, who was a UK transport minister at the time, were the last to give evidence on the matter, and my understanding is that the committee was going to produce a curtailed report. The evidence that I gave will be on the record, as will Mr Merriman’s. I understand that the Labour Party, too, has made statements on the matter. I do not want to go any further than that.

What I will say—I have written this in previous correspondence—is that I do not think that the devolved areas were being protected as much as they could and should have been protected. I will remind the clerks about this, but I think that I have already given the committee copies of my correspondence to the UK Government on my concerns about the bill. That said, I am probably skating into territory that I should not skate further into.

Let us see where we get to in terms of the process.