Chamber and committees

Good morning, and welcome to the 32nd meeting in 2022 of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee. We have apologies from the convener, Edward Mountain.

Our first item is consideration of a draft Scottish statutory instrument. I welcome Màiri McAllan, Minister for Environment and Land Reform, who is attending on behalf of the Cabinet Secretary for Net Zero, Energy and Transport. I also welcome the Scottish Government officials who are joining us today: Rosemary Greenhill, who is regulatory team leader, Luigi Pedreschi, who is a solicitor, and Claire Phelan, who is a policy officer. I thank you all for attending.

The instrument was laid under the affirmative procedure, which means that the Parliament must approve it before it comes into force. Following the evidence session, the committee will be invited at the next agenda item to consider a motion to recommend approval of the instrument.? I remind everyone that the officials can speak under this item but not in the debate that follows. I invite the minister to make a short opening statement.

The committee would be interested in that. We have to determine what we, as a committee, want to do, and you might want to advise us on what it would be most useful for us to do. There is no point in our repeating work that you are doing, but we need to work in synergy somehow.

If we are being quite innovative, in a global sense, in our approach to the just transition, the challenge is that we have to make difficult choices. Will we need to make big, bold decisions relating to the just transition in Scotland, or will piecemeal, segmented activity with seedcorn funding provide a way forward? That is a genuine dilemma. Has the commission discussed that?

The committee could focus on skills. Some of the skills that need to be developed might not be used to deliver projects until five years’ time, for example, but if we do not start investing in the supply chain and developing those skills now, we will not necessarily be able to deliver and scale up, particularly in relation to renewables, when work needs to be done at pace. The issue is how we support supply chain companies that use engineering skills, for example, to make those investments and decisions now, given that they might not necessarily reap the rewards for five years. A genuine transition challenge relates to how we support companies to do that, and that might require state subsidy. We need to think about the issue in those terms. Will the commission look at that, and should the committee potentially look at it?

I should probably point out that I am the only MSP who sits on the Economy and Fair Work Committee and on the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee, to which Professor Skea has also given evidence. I am interested in how we dial up the just transition focus in this committee and respect what that other committee might be looking at, such as land use, land reform and transport. It is about how we get that read-across.

I want to ask specifically about the just transition fund that exists for the north-east and Moray, which obviously involves focusing and making a decision on a place-based approach to just transition. Did your commission advise the Government in advance of the announcement of the initial £50 million funding for the 24 projects in the first tranche?

The plans and projects that exist are all very good and worthy in and of themselves, but some of them are probably focused more on delivery of net zero than necessarily on a just transition. There will be an obvious fault line between trying to generate the transition and focusing on the “just” aspect of it in relation to fairness and the principles that you have established.

If there is to be funding for a just transition, should it be mainstreamed in the areas that have already been mentioned—housing, energy and transport, for example—with private companies involved, or would there be merit in having stand-alone just transition plans that were supported by funds? If criteria had to be met for those funds, would the commission advise on that? If you are advising on the sector just transition plans, are you also advising on the criteria for funding, or is that still work in progress?

Thank you very much.

Finally, I will ask Susan Rice about the priority for the board on the strategic challenge. To what extent does the biodiversity crisis sit within that, alongside the climate change emergency? Is the board addressing those issues? Are there any difficulties with the regulatory constraint whereby SEPA is on one side and the water commissioner is on the other?

Finally—again, it might be Peter Farrer who is best placed to answer this—what changes in demand have you noticed during the Covid-19 pandemic and also as a result of the energy crisis? They are two separate issues but in the same kind of timeframe. What influences on demand have they had for Scottish Water?

Customers.

Yes.