Chamber and committees

I thank you for your work on the commission and for your report, “A National Mission for a fairer, greener Scotland”. This committee’s wanting to hear from you in our second meeting is evidence of the importance that we place on a just transition.

I want to focus on industrial transitions. We know that the 2045 target will be tough and that the 2030 target is even tougher. You have talked about tensions. If we are to deliver on the targets, it might be imperative that we focus on one sector as opposed to another. How do you see the sectoral approach, given that you called for just transition plans in each sector? How do we raise the game for all sectors while trying to meet the targets?

We could perhaps explore that a bit more if you want to follow up.

I have a question for Dave Moxham, and Professor Skea may then want to come in. I know that other colleagues will want to come on to specific sectors, but I am interested in the “how” of delivery, given that skills and reskilling are central.

Over the past year, we have gone through an experience whereby we have probably had unprecedented work between unions and employers in dealing with the pandemic. That approach, of bringing employers and unions together to tackle this and to come up with skills transition, strikes me as something that could be very positive.

On the idea of mapping the different skills needed in different sectors, a lot of skills and retraining is very individualised now—a lot of private providers do it on that basis, and there is a lot of responsibility on individual workers in different sectors to do it themselves. How do we do that collectively? Dare I say it that historical vested interests are, understandably, involved in some aspects of the protection of the high standards that are necessary in different sectors for working in what are, quite often, very challenging circumstances. What is your advice on how we can make sure that, as part of those individual sectoral transitions, skills and retraining are developed in a way that is meaningful, bearing in mind that it looks as if money, resource and commitment are there? It is about the “how” and the delivery.

This question may be only for Jim Skea, on this occasion. It is about the idea of offshoring, how we translate that on a global basis and how the world looks at what fairness is in a global context. That is the big picture for COP26.

Your report mentions the idea of a potential global carbon tax for offshoring. Has the commission done much work on that? What are your personal views on how we can broaden the issue of just transition to be not only a national issue, and the international dimension of it?

Is it okay if we go through the other witnesses, convener?

I am conscious that this is a massive area, convener, so I suspect that people might be required to follow up in writing after the committee meeting.

Does Rose Marley have any top lines on that? Dave Moxham can then address anything that he did not cover in his answer to Colin Smith.

I thank Colin for teeing me up.

Hello everybody. As the first evidence session of this committee is in the realm of scoping and scene setting, and as the committee will be interested in the transition to net zero and the wellbeing economy, your responses and focus in those areas at this stage will—by necessity—have to be top line.

I am struck that we have heard that many businesses are still in survival mode. In addition, we have a planet that has to survive, and we heard in Michelle Thomson’s question about the debt issues that many small businesses are facing. That all comes at a time when, in order to achieve net zero, there will have to be investment in heat and transport and in relation to the demands of consumers for net zero delivery of services.

What practically can be done? How do we commit ourselves to the bigger, overarching Scottish agenda of that transition and wellbeing? What would be your messages to the committee, in order for us to focus on what can make a material change? Bearing in mind the gain that businesses will have in reduced costs in the long term, business investment might lend itself to interesting models of finance to help small businesses. However, how can that be done at the same time that businesses are trying to survive, when they are carrying a lot of debt?

Dave Moxham just spoke about some of that wider agenda, so I will come to him at the end to pick up on some of the issues that he did not cover in his last answer. I will go to Charandeep Singh first on that, then to Barry McCulloch, Rose Marley and Carolyn Currie.

Carolyn Currie can start, followed by Rose Marley.

I want to talk about pace and trajectory in meeting the targets, which are very challenging. You emphasised that the Scottish Parliament has probably not taken your advice but has gone harder on the 2030 targets. I want to ask about your modelled scenarios, which you call headwinds, balanced, widespread innovation, widespread engagement and tailwinds. I am interested in the role of new technologies and investment. Will you explain a bit more about what pathway we are on and the investment that is required to deliver that? Obviously, there have to be priorities and choices have to be made, but what do your modelled scenarios mean for Scotland in particular and for the UK?