Chamber and committees

The convener asked some general questions at the start about the allocation of pay in the budget. I would like to drill down into nursing and social care pay.

At the committee on 15 November last year, Colin Poolman of the RCN said:

“Social care pay in the health service is, frankly, upsetting”.

He also said:

“It is no surprise that we have a crisis in the social care workforce as well as in the health workforce.”—[Official Report, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, 15 November 2022; c 11.]

Responding to the cabinet secretary and the First Minister’s briefing yesterday, Mr Poolman said that the RCN’s

“previous warnings have not been listened to.”

He reiterated the point that fair pay is fundamental to the retention of the current workforce and to attracting a workforce for the future. For the sake of the NHS and social care, can the cabinet secretary afford not to listen to the serious and real concerns of nurses, given the number who are turning away from the profession? Does he think that nurses are being unreasonable?

I have one final question. When you look at your finances and budgets, what consequences do you think there may be from having to fund the introduction of the national care service? How will that affect pay, terms and conditions in the short and slightly longer term?

May I come back in on social care?

My question is quite specific and is on an issue that was raised by Alison Kerr of the Royal College of Occupational Therapists, Fanchea Kelly of Blackwood Homes and Care, and Henry Simmons from Alzheimer Scotland. It is about the rights of people to have rehabilitation as part of the national care service. Those experienced people indicated that they thought that that should be in the bill. Will the minister commit to considering that?

I am particularly interested in fair work. We have heard clearly in evidence from people who have come to the committee that so much could be done now. Will you commit to looking at what has been achieved so far and push forward with that without having to rely on the bill?

No—that is perfect. Thank you.

It has been answered.

I start by saying that pausing the bill would not mean pausing some of the urgent changes that are needed in social care. We have plenty of evidence and quotes from professional organisations, trade unions and third sector organisations that say that we can do a lot now.

My question is on sectoral collective bargaining. Has the Government considered that or had any advice on it, and will you commit to talking to the trade unions now about it? Throughout the evidence sessions—you mentioned it yourself, minister—we have heard that we can sort out the pay, terms and conditions of social work staff, and that that would make the biggest possible difference to provision of the care and support that individuals need in their day-to-day lives.

What is the key barrier to that? All the evidence that we heard from the trade unions, professional organisations and some of the third sector is that that should be happening. I am unclear what the key barrier is that the Government is finding.

It is disappointing that the stuff that is in the Fair Work Convention’s 2019 report has not been progressed. I want to be clear about whether you are saying that we could do a lot of that stuff now—particularly in relation to pay for the social care workforce, who make a big difference—and then move on to the framework bill and so on.