Chamber and committees

It has been suggested that there was a huge political divide in COSLA with regard to its position. Is there a huge political divide? What is your absolute current position?

Louise, one of the areas that you mentioned as desperately needing reform was children’s services. What reforms can we undertake now, or should we wait for an NCS to be established before we do them? Once we have put reforms in place, what should be the criteria for their success? How should we go about considering all that?

We have spent £28 million on the proposed national care service so far. Do we need a national care service in order to drive the reforms that you have all said that we need, given that there is a significant deficit, which Rachel Cackett spoke about?

Yes. Thank you. My final question is for the rest of the panel. Given that COSLA has withdrawn its support, and given that the unions, including the Scottish Trades Union Congress just yesterday, have withdrawn their support for the bill, where does that leave the bill? If we push forward with the bill as it is, with seemingly no shared accountability, what do you think will happen?

Good morning. I refer to my entry in the register of members’ interests. I am a practising NHS GP. In your submission, Dr Elder-Woodward, you say:

“Like ‘The Promise’ for childcare, this is a waste of paper with meaningless words

We heard from our previous panel of witnesses that children’s services are in crisis. Given where we are right now with the bill, and the fact that £28 million has been spent on it, do you feel that it is absolutely necessary, or could we already start making changes, especially in children’s services?

I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests, which states that I am a practising general practitioner.

Councillor Kelly, you said that COSLA had pulled away from shared accountability, yet paragraph 80 of the memorandum talks about the importance of shared accountability. Given that unions have withdrawn support from the NCS—the Scottish Trades Union Congress and COSLA are the latest bodies to do so—and that, as we have heard, most of civic Scotland is united against it, it seems to me that the bill is dead in the water. However, Maree Todd, the Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport, has said that COSLA’s

“walking away ... shows total disregard for the people we all serve.”

If the NCS is pushed through in its current form, what do you feel will happen to the sector?

I declare an interest as a practising NHS GP.

It is not just COSLA that has pulled out; all the unions have done the same. I have been looking at the submissions, and no one is in full agreement that the bill as written is the way that it should be going. Certainly, that is true of the panel.

Karen Hedge spoke quite powerfully about the bill being about where the power sits. First, where does the power sit in the bill? Secondly, do we need the NCS in order to make the reforms that you have all said are needed, or could we make those reforms now, given that we have spent £28 million on the NCS so far?

I remind everyone of my entry in the register of members’ interests as a registered NHS general practitioner.

I want to touch on palliative care, which we have not talked about at all—I want to stay on palliative care and not touch on assisted dying. The Scottish Government produced a policy paper with seven outcome measures. How will the national care service impact palliative care?

The Convention of Scottish Local Authorities has decided that it is no longer in favour of the bill. Given the lack of support from one of the most important partners, it seems to me that the bill is dead in the water. COSLA has not come before the committee yet, but, if we are to believe that it has withdrawn its support for the bill and does not agree to it, do you, as chief executives and chief officers, believe that the bill can deliver what is intended, or do you agree that it is dead in the water?

From your reading of the bill as it stands, Edith, are you confident that it will improve the working lives of the people who work on the front line of care?