Chamber and committees

Thank you.

I want to reflect briefly on Naomi Cunningham’s point about women wondering whether there is a toilet that they can access safely. Let me say that, as a disabled woman, I experience that, and it is horrible to worry about whether you will be able to access a toilet. We need to get this right. I imagine that trans women and trans men, too, go through a similar experience when they leave the house, in that they wonder whether they will be able to access a toilet or changing room. Do you agree that part of the solution will be to have inclusive and private spaces?

Thank you. Finally, Sharon Cowan—

I am not sure that I suggested a third space, but I take the point about privacy. Thank you.

Thank you for the evidence that you gave us in advance on the work that you have done in the area, and for your answers to our questions so far this morning. I want to ask you about the interaction between the service and the gender recognition certificate.

Greater Glasgow and Clyde NHS Board submitted information to the committee, and it has said that it is important to highlight

“the separation between successful application for a GRC and ... robust governance standards for gender identity treatment.”

For clarity, will you set out what that separation is, whether there is an interaction and, if so, where that is? I note that you touched on that a moment ago in your answer to my colleague Pam Gosal. Will you also set out where, if at all, a gender recognition certificate comes into play or is relevant in the gender reassignment protocol?

Sorry. I will try to remind myself. I may be corrected by the Official Report, but I think that I asked about the point that Greater Glasgow and Clyde NHS Board made that it is important to clarify and highlight

“the separation between successful application for a GRC and ... robust governance standards for gender identity treatment.”

A lot of the evidence that the committee has had has been about both aspects of a trans person’s life. I want to get your view on the separation between the certificate and the gender identity treatment in the NHS.

That is helpful.

We heard in previous evidence that, in Denmark, there was a move from self-ID for accessing a gender recognition certificate to self-ID for accessing medicalised processes such as gender identity treatment. Could you imagine that happening here, and has it been considered?

That is also helpful.

My final question probably goes over ground that you have already gone over, but I want to be absolutely clear about this. What impact do you believe getting a gender recognition certificate would have on a person’s ability to receive medical treatment?

I want to press you on that point. Do you think that people who access a gender recognition certificate do that for the main purpose of accessing single-sex spaces? If that is the case, what you have said may be the case—I am not sure whether the international evidence bears that out, but I can see how it would be the case. However, a number of trans people have said that a gender recognition certificate is not about access to single-sex spaces, and some have even said that they recognise that that could be difficult in some circumstances. In fact, it is about being recognised in the gender that they live in when they go for a job or go to university, or when they die. Do you have evidence to suggest that people are accessing gender recognition certificates for those other purposes?

You yourself called the process of accessing a gender recognition certificate “solemn and serious”. If that is the case, do you think that people will use it for those purposes?