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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 24 November 2024
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Displaying 1375 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 April 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Good morning. Thank you for all the information that you shared in advance, and for the work that you have been doing this year—I hear how hard it has been. Some of what you have said is hard to hear, so I cannot imagine how hard it must have been to deliver the service that you have had to deliver over the past year—thank you for doing it. I am genuinely terrified for people just now. I do not know how they are going to meet their bills and pay for food or basics, as you have said, and I think that we need to do much more than we are doing.

My first question is on the support that your organisations get and need. Charlene Kane, Matthew Irvine and Alan McIntosh have touched on the financial pressures on their organisations and what that means. Will you say a little more about the pressures that you are under and whether the Government has been in touch with you to talk about how to manage the demand? I ask Charlene and Matthew to answer that.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 April 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I, too, thank the panel members for their answers so far. I have one quick follow-up question on the welfare fund, and then two very brief questions on other matters.

About one third of refusals of applications for the Scottish welfare fund have been because of previous applications. Are people using it multiple times to supplement their low income?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 April 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you for the information that you have shared with us just now and in advance, as well as the work that you have done over the past couple of years, which have been really hard, with the people that you represent. Those of you who listened to the previous panel will have heard some stories about the effect of that.

I will start on that, if that is okay, convener, before I move on to digital exclusion. Today is international workers memorial day and it is important for us all to remember that everything has an impact on people in their jobs. We should not have to go to our jobs and get sick or stressed. We should not have to take those jobs home, nor should they affect our mental health. Those are unacceptable experiences for everyone in the workplace. I would be keen to hear from David McNeill about the sorts of pressures the organisations that he represents are under. What is the demand on their services, specifically front-line services? Have there been any attempts by the Government or others to support that demand and to increase resources for it?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 April 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

That leads to my next question. Jim McPake mentioned slogans about people having to choose to eat or to heat. You are waiting for action from the Government. The response in Scotland has been to take £150 off the council tax bill, which works out at something like £4 a week. Can you comment on that response and say what else is needed? To me, money being taken off a bill is quite different to actually getting money in your pocket.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 April 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Charlene, would you like to comment on that? That is my final question, convener.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 April 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you for that. I visited a citizens advice bureau in Cambuslang, where the staff were rushed off their feet—I could not believe the amount of work that they were having to do. I put on record my thanks to the bureaux there for the work that they have done, and to those across the country.

Will you say a bit more about the impact of the fact that you are having to deal with so much demand? I was really struck by the fact that—I think it was Jim McPake who said this—the issue that you are working on now is not credit, but whether people can pay their bills or rent and the other stuff that they have to pay. Could you give us an understanding of the impact that that is having on the advisers?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 April 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

The SCVO leads on the connecting Scotland project. What demand have you had for that service and what might the impact be of an online or phone-based money advice service across Scotland? Can you also tell us how many devices you have been able to give out and whether there is unmet need in that regard?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 April 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I thank the witnesses for their answers so far. I would like to put on record my thanks to Glasgow Disability Alliance, which I know has done a power of work, in particular through the connecting Scotland support fund, in the way that Susie Fitton has outlined.

I want to move on to talk about the impact that debt is having on groups of people such as low-income families. My first question, which is for Conor Forbes and Lawrie Morgan-Klein, is about public sector debt collecting. We have heard, and have seen in the evidence that has been submitted to us, that public sector debt collection seems to be faster and harsher than private sector debt collection. Although no debt collection should be quick or harsh, one would expect it to be the other way round. Why do you think that is? What solution could the committee seek to pursue?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 April 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I do, thank you. I share Lawrie Morgan-Klein’s view that the committee should consider speaking to creditors and, for the record, I think that it would also be worth speaking to energy companies.

My final area of questioning is for Susie Fitton. Hi, Susie; it is nice to see you again. My question is about disabled people and their experience of low income right now, as we are in the middle of a cost of living crisis, and their experience of debt.

What types of debts are disabled people getting into? Is there something that is specifically disability related? If there is, what can we do to address that?

I also have a slightly broader question on fuel costs for disabled people. We know that it costs disabled people more in fuel, for lots of reasons. Can more be done on that? Has the support that the UK Government and the Scottish Government have provided by deducting money off council tax bills specifically helped disabled people? What more could we be doing here in Scotland?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Tackling Child Poverty Delivery Plan 2022 to 2026

Meeting date: 21 April 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thanks for those answers. I will move on to the next theme. Some of the submissions say that, even if we reach the targets, we will only just reach the relative poverty target and we will miss—obviously—the absolute poverty target. There are concerns about standards of living and the targets on destitution.

For many people, it does not feel that we are in an optimistic situation with regard to the economy or the cost of living, so does the modelling still hold? In a year’s time, will we still be saying that we will meet the targets? Is there anything that we need to do now to guarantee that we will get there, given that the modelling suggests that we will only just make it?

As has been touched on already, the reductions in poverty do not reflect living standards, so it would be good to hear a little more about what that means for families. In the interests of time, I ask Peter Kelly and Bill Scott to answer those questions. I know that everyone could say something on the issue.