Chamber and committees

Can you reassure us that the licensing authorities will not be able to use the licensing scheme as a means of revenue generation and that fees applied will cover their own costs only? Can you confirm that you will provide guidance—we have already heard a lot about that—to licensing authorities on parameters for setting the fees, and on other issues that require local flexibility? As you have already said, local authorities know their communities best.

Tourism stakeholders have raised concerns about the application process being a de facto ban. They alluded to what is happening in Dublin where there is uncertainty about whether the licensing renewal process might stymie their business. How would you respond to those concerns? Are they well founded?

It is clear to me that local authorities must balance the needs and concerns of the communities that they serve with the needs of the wider tourism sector and owners of local short-term let accommodation. Although short-term lets are a flexible option for individuals, we must balance that with the issue of overall safety, the loss of residential housing stock, the antisocial behaviour that we have seen and the potential for criminal activity to occur, while creating a level playing field across the sector.

On balance, I do not think that a licensing scheme would be overly onerous, and I propose that we agree to the motion.

Although the advanced funding that the UK Government has announced is welcome, it falls well short of the financial support that is required to reinforce public health messaging. It is not sustainable that the Scottish Government is responsible for protecting public health but that its actions are constrained by UK Government funding decisions. Does the First Minister agree that that is yet another example of how the current funding arrangements for Scotland are entirely inadequate to responding to the impacts of the pandemic?

I rise to speak on this topic as a newly appointed member of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee. I have only three meetings under my belt and I am a new parliamentarian who had no real working experience of this place before the advent of Covid-19 and the pandemic. Of council chambers, I could write “War and Peace”, but of this Parliament, I know only social distancing, Teams, masks and BlueJeans.

All of us who were participating virtually yesterday experienced what happens when a worldwide internet system crashes; it was frustrating and meant that some who were due to speak remotely were unable to deliver their speeches and those who were in the chamber endured delays and frustrations.

However, I do not characterise that as the norm for the virtual or hybrid space that we currently inhabit. Like many, I have experienced those sudden and intense itchy-oxter moments when, on joining a BlueJeans session that is already in progress, I am that weird little swirly thing up in the left hand corner of everyone’s screens. We cringe as the youngest child enters the room and loudly demands a snack, the dog turns into the hound of the Baskervilles as a parcel is delivered, or the family chicken decides that it wants five minutes of fame and hogs the airwaves. All of that rapidly detracts from the salient points that we were trying hard to communicate.

Those frustrating and sometimes amusing moments have been borne with levity and a sense of pragmatism. We all recognise that, in order for us to represent our constituents, create impactful legislation and perform our scrutiny function, quickly ensuring that remote working was possible has stood us in good stead.

There is an old saying often used in Ayrshire: huv tae is a guid maister. To get the folk of Scotland through the pandemic, this place and all its component parts had to respond swiftly by suspending standing orders, amending procedures and passing emergency legislation, all with an army of amazing tech support in the background working night and day to create a virtual world, the idea of which was previously unthinkable and often dismissed. Sometimes it takes an extreme event to provoke change. It is now up to us to ponder what we want to keep and what we cannot wait to dispense with.

Before coming to Parliament, I was the wellbeing spokesperson for the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities for several years, but I was not just a spokesperson; I was a co-spokesperson. I shared the role with Councillor Kelly Parry, who required support to be able to undertake maternity leave, just like any other woman right across Scotland. It was, and still is, amazing to me that such role sharing had never happened previously at COSLA, nor indeed in any council setting. The concept caused a bit of a stramash when it was first introduced—but huv tae is a guid maister, and with the support of officers and council group leaders, the benefit to all of that role being shared between two councillors meant that she did not lose out on her role or her earnings by having a baby. Her rights as a parent and as a woman were protected. By breaking out of that custom and practice, Kelly Parry and I helped to pave the way forward, and I see some parallels with what we must do now in this place.

As a family-friendly legislature, we need to recognise that this country might be small, but the nature of its constituencies and regions mean that some members travel nearly a whole day to get home. It takes me three hours to get to Ayrshire by train—an hour and a half by car, but three hours by train. The crèche is closed due to the pandemic, but were it open, votes being held later and later in the day would still cause issues for parents relying on that facility.

Some form of continued hybrid system that can allow for parents or those of us who care for older or disabled relatives to be at home must be on the cards. I am sure that many members have experienced the abject terror that is associated with remote voting when there is the usual after 5 pm moment when everybody is arriving home and demanding dinner and you are shushing them and kicking them all—including the dog—out of the room that you are in as you try in vain to hear what the Presiding Officer is talking about and which vote we are on, especially if it is a stage 3. If it means that a member can be at home to breastfeed a new baby or get dinner ready for their elderly mother, I think that those stressful moments are worth it.

Widening access to this place for more women, young parents, those with disabilities and those with caring responsibilities is a must, and this is one way in which we can do it. As Sarah Boyack has already said, we just have to look at the talent that we lost when several MSPs did not stand again in 2021 because they could not balance their work/life and constituency/parliamentary duties in such a way as to ensure that they could remain MSPs. Think for a moment about all the talent that left.

I absolutely agree, and that is why we need to have hybrid proceedings going forward, in my opinion. We need to look at everybody’s needs and address them effectively. If that means that we need to create some kind of justification for why a member needs to meet in a given way, as another member has mentioned, that is fine. I think that hybrid working, and not one or the other, is the way forward for sure.

The same can be said for those who give evidence to committees. We are hearing from new voices—from those for whom the trip to Edinburgh was too arduous and too expensive and took too much time out of their days. Their evidence is invaluable and totally reflective of the wider population we serve. Indeed, the international voices that we now hear are hugely important, too.

As we have already heard, such a system saves us money by reducing costs and expenses, and it reduces our carbon output.

I am not so sure that I agree with that. I have taken evidence from ministers in the committees that I have been on so far, and we have been able to scrutinise them quite fairly in that situation. If a minister is self-isolating or dealing with another illness, their opportunity to give evidence should not be taken away, but I get the point that sometimes it is easier when they are in the room and members can see the whites of their eyes.

Stephen Kerr talked about being in the building at any time and being able to be recalled and said that we should all be up for that. I have a disability that means that I cannot do that and I would not be able to do that. We have to remember that this is a family-friendly and an MSP-friendly situation that we are in and we have to be mindful of everybody’s situation.

I look forward to hearing from colleagues; there will be conflicting views—we have already seen that. It has been quite eye opening so far. However, let us get the evidence and get the inquiry off to a roaring start.

Does Daniel Johnson agree that there are some circumstances when we need to have a speech in front of us? I am going through menopause—there will be other women in the chamber who are doing so—and I lose my train of thought if a hot flush overtakes me. That has happened several times in here and, if I did not have my words in front of me, I might have ended up greetin and sittin back down.

Thank you. That last comment was particularly helpful, Andrew.

Before I ask my questions, I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests. I am still a serving councillor at East Ayrshire Council.

My first question is directed at Chief Inspector Nicola Robison and Andrew Mitchell. The committee has heard that powers already exist to deal with the illegal or antisocial behaviour that is associated with a small number of short-term lets. Have those powers proved to be effective in practice? I am thinking particularly of the evidence in Police Scotland’s letter. I am concerned about the possibility of women being trafficked across the country into prostitution; I am also worried about county lines drugs activities as well as the potential for puppy farming.