Chamber and committees

I will need to read that back in the Official Report to understand and process that answer. It is a complicated picture, which is why it is a polarising option at the moment.

We will suspend briefly until we can get Richard back.

How ironic is that? I will hand back to you to finish answering Pam Duncan-Glancy’s question.

I think that Mark Simpson wants to come back in before we move on to Miles Briggs.

I thank both our witnesses for giving evidence. As always, your report and your evidence will help us in our scrutiny function.

Thank you for your time this morning, Mr Dennis. It would be very helpful to the committee if you could get back to us by 8 June, if possible, with the information that you so kindly said you would provide to us. That would allow us to have the information when we need it.

That concludes our penultimate formal oral evidence-taking session for this inquiry. We will be hearing next from the Scottish Government, and I should also say that the committee will be meeting its experts by experience panel informally on 6 June to take stock of the evidence that has been heard and hear their suggestions for improvements.

I suspend the meeting for about five minutes for a changeover of witnesses and a comfort break.

That is perfect, thank you.

If you want to come in quickly on the previous question, that is okay.

Thank you. We move on to the final two questions.

We will always see some hiccups. I will point out to members that we are how many years down from the roll-out of PIP—we are 13 years in—yet it has still not been fully rolled out. That is why there are people on the disability living allowance and other legacy benefits. Also, as my colleagues are saying from sedentary positions, there is a five-week cruel wait before people get their first universal credit payment.

Our social security agency has been built for us all, and it was imperative that we took the time and made the effort to ensure that we did not replicate or bake in the shortcomings and inequity of the UK system. It is also incumbent on us all to work hard to make sure that we maximise benefit uptake. We want to figure out how to get past the practical issues of data sharing to ensure that families get everything that they are entitled to. I will repeat the minister’s call for members across the chamber to please get that information out on their social media channels and make sure that everyone knows what they are entitled to.

As Convener of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee, I recently travelled to Social Security Scotland in Dundee with my committee colleague Emma Roddick, to hear at first hand about how the transfer of the adult disability payment was progressing. I was struck by how impassioned the staff were and how they appreciated the time that was afforded to them with the phased roll-out, as that enables them to be fleet of foot in the face of challenges and respond accordingly. They spoke about culture and practice being developed, which gives me the confidence that our guiding principles are playing out in real time. That was confirmed by the recent study that showed that 90 per cent of Social Security Scotland’s customers rated the service as good or very good.

It was the application form for ADP that resonated most with me on that day. That is not tinkering around the edges. That form could not be further removed from the application form for the personal independence payment: it has been crafted with lived and worked experience in mind and dignity at its heart. Both Emma Roddick and I were emotional, as we both know only too well the positive impact that it will have on those of us in Scotland who find ourselves eligible for such a payment. Indefinite awards and no dehumanising private sector assessments also signal a brand new approach.

So, despite the ludicrous Labour assertion that we are doing nothing with our powers, eligible families in Scotland will receive more than £10,000 by the time their first child turns six, and £9,700 for subsequent children. As the minister said, contrast that with only £1,800 in England and Wales, and only £1,300 for subsequent children. We are doing that with one hand tied behind our back. Just imagine what we could do with all the powers of a normal, everyday independent country.