Chamber and committees

Quite often, there is a perceived risk of significant harm to the baby. Would it be helpful if we expanded access to mother and baby units so that they can offer support to those mums and help them keep their babies? What other perinatal health services could we look at that might provide positive support to those mums and keep families together?

Yes. In particular, it was about the high numbers of care-experienced mums who lose their children at or very close to birth. Would mother and baby unit expansion support that? What other perinatal services could help to keep those babies with their mums?

My question is for Joanne Smith. You spoke about the fact that you cover the third sector as well as statutory services. I am interested in the evidence that we got from women about the importance of the third sector’s role. They spoke about Home-Start and peer support. As Gillian Mackay picked up on, there is sometimes a worry about being too honest and up front with health professionals because of what the consequences of that could be. There are fears about the mum being taken away from their baby or the baby being taken away from their mum. The women felt that peer support gave a bit of trust on either side and allowed them to feel much more comfortable in being open.

I have experience in providing breastfeeding support as a volunteer peer supporter, and the midwife who led that work said that how mums speak to her in her midwife role is very different from how they speak to her when she does peer support.

Is the third sector picking up services that our NHS boards should be delivering? Where does the balance lie? In addition, what can our NHS boards learn from third sector organisations?

What gaps exist in the information that is provided by NHS Scotland and the Scottish Government on perinatal mental health? I am not sure who wants to come in on that question.

Earlier, Professor Knight mentioned the possibility of including babies being removed from mums in the category of baby loss events. Quite high numbers of care-experienced mums lose their babies at or very soon after birth, because they have not had those stable and protective relationships themselves.

The picture on the screen has disappeared; I do not know whether we are still on.

Thank you for those answers, and I will follow on from that. When I was speaking to women, I found that the third sector services that they got were excellent, and they were a massive help and support to them. The biggest issue that they seemed to have was that that support came a bit too late and a bit too far down the line. That seemed to be down to the information and guidance. The health professionals did not necessarily know about the local organisations that were best placed to help the women.

The women also made a point about some of the literature that they get, which has terminology that is outdated or a bit insensitive; it talks about “baby blues” and so on, which made them less likely to seek help, as they felt that that undermined how they were feeling.

How can third sector and NHS services be improved from that point of view, so that we get mums to the people who can offer the best support as quickly as possible? Maybe the national virtual hub is the way forward, as was said earlier.

I am talking about parents, those with specialist knowledge or people with neurodiversity and so on.

I do not know whether this is a question for Jennifer King or for another panel member, but what about representation on the national teacher panel and the children and young people’s education council?

Some of my questions follow on from or are connected to what Bob Doris talked about. My first questions are for Mike Corbett.

In previous evidence, we heard that teachers did a lot of really good work in building relationships with pupils while schools were out during the pandemic and that that continued when pupils returned to school. A lot of that has been about pupils’ mental health and wellbeing and young people being in the right place to learn. We also heard anecdotal evidence that teachers are starting to feel that they are possibly losing some of that good work and that there is pressure in relation to academic stuff in that there is a lot more focus on literacy and numeracy at primary school and on exams at secondary school. Has that been teachers’ experience recently? Do teachers feel that wellbeing and mental health are high enough a priority? Have expectations about pupils’ progress changed through the pandemic?

I do not see anyone else volunteering to respond, so that is perhaps a question for another day. Thank you very much for your input.