Chamber and committees

Thanks very much for allowing me back in, convener.

Minister, you mentioned self-directed support, and many of the witnesses have spoken about self-directed support being an excellent initiative and the legislation being excellent. That initiative is along the same lines as the national care service and it has the same kind of ethos behind it, because it is all about people having agency and control, and putting what matters to them at the centre.

With that in mind, is there a focus on building on that initiative and replicating its successes? It has worked incredibly well in some places and not so well in other places where it has not been properly embedded. Is any work being done on that?

Thanks for that answer. That really is a change. A lot more time will be spent with those people who have committed serious offences as well. Yes, care providers are very supportive of the bill, but they are also very clear about the real risks around accommodating those older young people. Sometimes, very serious or even gruesome offences have been committed, and we must take the risks really seriously.

Obviously, the expertise of those involved in secure care is hugely important. They have been talking about grouping together children and young people in groups that are quite safe. Can you give some reassurance that you will be working closely with those directly involved in secure care to find a way forward on the issue? As you said, they have expertise and specialist training so that they can understand the complex needs involved.

I have a short question. When you are doing that work alongside providers, are you happy to build in and take seriously any need for flexibility, including with regard to infrastructure, to ensure that they are able to work effectively with those young people?

Whether children and young people in secure care are secured on welfare or offence grounds, they are the most vulnerable and at-risk people in Scotland. The bill will bring changes for secure accommodation providers, because they will be accommodating older young people and, as the convener spoke about, those young people who have committed serious offences.

I have two questions. First, what care and support needs do you anticipate for those young people who have committed the most serious offences? Secondly, how will staff who currently work in secure care settings be trained and supported to perform that role?

Yes, that is great. Stephen Bermingham, do you want to comment?

Jackie Irvine mentioned ASN and Tony Buchanan spoke about intensive support and intervention. From the evidence that we have heard, it seems that people are trying to get the most out of their time in young offenders institutions and secure care. It seems that, at that point, everything speeds up and a young person can get a diagnosis that, if they had had it earlier, would have perhaps prevented them from ending up in the place that they are in. Does anyone have any comments on that?

I suppose that my questions follow on from what Jenny Brotchie was saying, so I will come to her first. Kate Wallace from Victim Support Scotland told us in evidence about a “lack of information sharing” and that

“People who have been harmed by children or young people do not get ... information”—[Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 29 March 2023; c 33.]

about their cases. Is the bill strong enough in dealing with that aspect?

That would happen if, for example, it was serious—if there had been a serious sexual assault or something like that. There was also a suggestion that there should be a victim notification scheme, similar to the existing one for adults, so that people would feel that they could keep themselves safe and have agency. What about that aspect of it?

Ben Farrugia and Tony Buchanan both mentioned in their submissions that having a single point of contact could be quite important for victims. I suppose that goes back to what Jenny Brotchie said about having that trust in being able to get information about the process.

How important is that? How critical is that? Does that to some extent support the victims so that it is not really about getting too much individual information but about them feeling that they can have trust in the system and that they are being supported through the process?

Are there changes that you feel should be made to the bill to emphasise that?