Chamber and committees

That would be helpful.

I will hand over to other members who are interested in staffing issues.

Thank you. I will ask a question while we are considering prison estates and modernisation. We have spoken a fair bit about the capital commitment that is required. I am more interested in looking at the conditions in prisons and the practical, possibly short-term, measures and actions that can be put in place to adapt and improve prison conditions for certain parts of the population. I am thinking in particular of older people, individuals with disabilities and so on, and measures such as widening cell doors or improving access to showers.

I know that that is difficult, given that we are aiming to get to a point at which the prison population consists of those people who pose the greatest risk of harm to society. However, I know that there can be challenges with that mix of population. From a budgetary perspective, I am interested in what short to medium-term actions can be taken to improve general conditions in prisons, particularly those in Dumfries and Greenock, which Jamie Greene highlighted.

We have about 15 minutes left, and I am aware that Rona Mackay has to leave slightly early. I will move back to Pauline McNeill in relation to issues around drugs, and then come on to Rona Mackay.

I suggest that, in relation to the question on projected population numbers, you could perhaps follow up in writing for us.

As there are no further questions, I thank the witnesses for their time and their attendance this morning. If you have any additional information that you wish to share with the committee, we will of course be keen to see it.

We will have a five-minute break to allow a changeover of witnesses.

Welcome back. The next witnesses are Ms Teresa Medhurst, interim chief executive, and Mr Gerry O’Donnell, interim director of finance, for the Scottish Prison Service. Thank you both for attending and for your written submissions, which are available online. I intend to allow an hour and 15 minutes for questions and discussion and I invite Teresa Medhurst to make a short opening statement.

I think that Jamie Greene has a question on this issue.

I note that you spoke about the demands on staff, particularly those that arose from Covid but also the general demands that arise from your increased prison population and the different population types for which you care. Will you comment on the staffing challenges that you face from Covid, such as shortages of staff, issues with morale and increased incidences of violence?

We had a helpful visit to HMP Edinburgh earlier this year that helped to focus our thinking about staffing challenges. Issues with recruitment and retention might apply not only to prison staff but, for example, to healthcare workers. I am interested in the short to medium-term budgetary considerations that you have to make to get to a point at which working in the prison sector is a career of choice for many people.

Thank you—that is very helpful. I will hand over to Pauline McNeill, who is interested in an issue to do with cell occupancy.

Before I do that, the clerk has helpfully updated me on the issue of prison construction timescales. I understand that HMP Barlinnie is due to be completed and ready for operation in 2025. As that project was first presented to ministers in 2011, that is a significant timescale. I thought that that information would be of interest, given that we consider that aspect to be a very important issue.

We move on to the issue of Covid deaths, with questions from Russell Findlay.