Chamber and committees

I, too, associate myself with the comments that Fulton MacGregor and Katy Clark have made. It is a welcome step forward, and the spirit of it seems to be perfectly sound.

On that basis, members are content not to make any specific recommendations to the Parliament on the instrument. I thank members for their views.

That concludes the public part of the meeting. We move into private session.

I will bring in Russell Findlay, then I will pull everything together.

That concludes the public part of our meeting, and we will now move into private session.

Our next item of business is consideration of correspondence from Police Scotland and the Scottish Police Federation on the potential impact of new pension arrangements on police numbers. The correspondence was received following a request from the committee to the chief constable for an update on the matter after consideration of a Scottish statutory instrument.

I refer members to paper 1 and invite them to make any comments that they have.

Good morning, and welcome to the 21st meeting in 2022 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have received apologies from Collette Stevenson. I welcome Jackie Dunbar to the meeting as a committee substitute.

I invite members to decide whether to take in private item 3 and any future consideration of progress made on implementing the committee’s recommendations in its report on the priorities for the criminal justice sector in Scotland. Are we agreed to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

I am keen for us to have a discussion about members’ views on the content of the two letters that we have received.

Does anyone else want to come in on Jamie’s suggestion? I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, I understand where you are coming from. On the other hand, I am quite keen that we do not conflate matters. The federation has written to us in very clear terms. I do not think that members have any doubt as to what its concerns are. If members are happy to write to the federation for some clarity, I am agreeable to that, but I am keen that we keep our consideration quite focused in the meantime. The other relevant option would be to write to the Scottish Police Authority to ask what it is doing about monitoring what is happening in the immediate term.

That was a helpful discussion and a lot of legitimate points were raised. Without diminishing what is happening, because this is an exceptional departure of police officers in terms of the numbers that are involved, Police Scotland ordinarily has an exodus of officers year on year, as members know. The numbers of officers leaving is to a certain extent dictated by 30 years ago. In the 1970s, a high number of officers were recruited, courtesy of pay and conditions improving. To a certain extent, divisional forces before Police Scotland and now Police Scotland have experience of managing that changing staff profile, but I agree that this is an unusual set of circumstances, which arises out of the change in pension provisions and arrangements.

It is important that we have been able to put our views on the record. We have published the letters that we received from Police Scotland and the Scottish Police Federation, which were helpful. It is also important to note that the Scottish Police Authority has an important role in managing and responding to the issue.

Given that we are a couple of weeks away from recess, if members agree, I propose to follow up by asking Police Scotland for its initial response to the correspondence from Scottish Police Federation and to comment on the concerns that it raises. We can consider the potential underpinning budget issues in our forthcoming budget scrutiny process. At this point in the year, if members agree, as a starting point, we should ask Police Scotland for its response to the SPF’s comments, keep the situation under review and revisit it when we feel that that is required. Do members agree with that?

Thank you. Jamie Greene wants to come back in.

Thanks. My proposal is that, in the first instance, we write back to Police Scotland and to the Scottish Police Authority. I will park the idea of writing back to the federation for the moment, because we have a clear idea of its position on the matter. We can review that in due course. Are members agreed?

Members indicated agreement.