Chamber and committees

Thanks. That is helpful.

I will bring in other members. Pauline McNeill would like to come in, and then Rona Mackay.

Is there scope for factors other than age—such as risk, which is topical at the moment, or the nature of the crime—to be considered in relation to that placement process? I imagine that that already happens to a certain extent.

Good morning, and welcome to the 11th meeting in 2023 of the Criminal Justice Committee.

We have received apologies from Collette Stevenson, and I welcome Jackie Dunbar to the meeting as her substitute. We have also received apologies from Jamie Greene.

Our first item of business is a decision on taking in private agenda item 4, which is consideration of evidence that we will hear today. Do we agree to take the item in private?

Members indicated agreement.

I will bring in Katy Clark, and then Fulton MacGregor.

It might also go back to our earlier discussion on individualised placement and risk assessment. There are some caveats to what you have clearly articulated, given some of the evidence that previous witnesses shared with us on the need to consider the individual’s maturity and other factors when considering placement.

That is a good suggestion.

As no one else has any comments, members will note that there is a suggestion in the paper about our follow-up action. I think that we all very much welcome the moves to explore the possibility of a pilot to support access to transcripts for complainers in sexual offences cases.

I want to highlight whether it would be feasible for the delivery of a pilot to be incorporated into the committee’s stage 1 consideration of the victims, witnesses and justice reform bill, which is due to be introduced shortly. As Rona Mackay has rightly flagged, we can share correspondence appropriately with external organisations.

Our next item of business is consideration of evidence on the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill. I welcome to the meeting Angela Constance, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs; Natalie Don, the Minister for Children, Young People and Keeping the Promise; and, from the Scottish Government, Catriona Dalrymple, who is the deputy director of community justice, Tom McNamara, who is the head of youth justice and children’s hearings, and Barry McCaffrey, who is a lawyer. We give a warm welcome to you all.

I take this opportunity to welcome both ministers to their new roles and to thank the former cabinet secretary, Keith Brown, for his engagement with the committee over recent years.

I refer members to papers 1 and 2. I intend to allow up to 90 minutes for this evidence session. On that note, I invite the cabinet secretary and/or the minister to make some brief opening remarks.

Thank you very much, minister. As usual, I will start the questions and then bring in members.

Minister, in your opening remarks, you mentioned some of the witnesses who we have already heard from and some of the very helpful evidence that we have heard. I will start by looking at the issues around age. One of the main provisions of the bill is that people under the age of 18 are no longer placed in a YOI or prison. The committee heard evidence from a range of witnesses that there should perhaps be more scope for an individualised assessment process to determine whether and where a child or young person should be detained. That would be based on factors such as their development, maturity and, perhaps, their neurological development. Aside from the issue around resources, are there any other particular barriers to being able to provide an individualised assessment process for children who are entering the criminal justice system and, potentially, a secure environment?

What the Tories continually miss is that, in Scotland, we are committed to supporting active farming and food production. However, farming will have to adapt if we are to meet our net zero targets, and, indeed, farmers have the skills to do that. I ask the minister for examples of good practice that would see farmers become eligible under each of the tiers.

I, too, welcome the cabinet secretary to her new role.

I recognise that the call-handling system in question is a legacy service that was permanently deleted in 2015. However, as the new cabinet secretary has just alluded to, that will be of little comfort to those people who have been personally affected by the revelations.

As the cabinet secretary takes on her new post, what steps will the Scottish Government take to ensure transparency, maintain public confidence and build increased public trust in policing?