Chamber and committees

That concludes our business. Next week, we will be joined by Gill Imery to review the work of the response to deaths in prison custody group, and we will also consider our approach to the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill.

Our next item of business is the start of our pre-budget scrutiny of the Scottish Government’s 2024-25 budget. We have two evidence panels today, and I intend to run each for up to 90 minutes.

I am pleased to welcome our first panel of witnesses. They are Deputy Chief Constable Jane Connors, crime and operational support; David Page, deputy chief officer; and James Gray, chief financial officer, all from Police Scotland. We also have with us Lynn Brown, who is the chief executive of the Scottish Police Authority, and, from the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, Ross Haggart, chief officer; Stuart Stevens, deputy chief officer; and John Thomson, acting director of finance and procurement.

I refer members to papers 1 and 2, and I thank the witnesses who provided written submissions. I also thank the Scottish Police Federation and the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents for their written submissions, which were received after we put out our meeting papers. I also thank the Fire Brigades Union for its submission, which, likewise, was received after the papers were published. Those submissions have all been sent separately to members and are now published online.

Given the size of the panel of witnesses, I ask everyone to be succinct as possible in their questions and answers. If they can, members should direct their questions to one or more of the witnesses, at least initially. I invite each organisation that is present to try to field just one person to respond, initially.

Having said that, I will begin with an open question to get the evidence session under way.

During last year’s budget scrutiny, all three organisations that are here today painted a challenging picture of the state of their budget, although that was relieved in part by extra money that was allocated by the Scottish Government. I invite Police Scotland, the SPA and then the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service to tell us briefly how the finances for 2023-24 have worked. What financial situation have you been working in, and what concerns or commentary do you have as we approach the 2024-25 settlement? I go first to Mr Gray.

Lynn Brown, I will come to you next, if you want to add anything to what we have already heard.

A very good morning, and welcome to the 21st meeting in 2023 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have apologies from Sharon Dowey.

Our first item of business is to welcome John Swinney to his first formal meeting of the Criminal Justice Committee. Sharon Dowey will attend her first meeting next week, because she has a prior commitment in London with the Public Audit Committee. I look forward to working with them both, and I repeat our thanks to Jamie Greene and Collette Stevenson, whom they replace.

I invite John Swinney to declare any interests that are relevant to the committee’s remit.

I will bring in DCC Connors in a second. David Page, is there anything that you want to add?

DCC Connors, I come to you now.

I will now bring in Pauline McNeill, followed by John Swinney.

Thank you. I will bring in Rona Mackay and then Katy Clark.

Eric, you mentioned white vans earlier, and I know that a joint decision has been made, albeit on a temporary basis, to set time limits in order to avoid late-night sittings in custody courts. Obviously that is very welcome for lawyers and court staff in particular, but has any modelling been done on the impact of that? My immediate thought is that it might just create a backlog of cases that are not being dealt with in the evening hours.

That was a really helpful update.

Finally, I want to ask about the process of transferring information such as police reports, evidence and so on, from the police to the Crown Office. Forgive me if this has been covered in earlier responses, but I think that it is a welcome part of transformation and reform. I am therefore curious about whether you have any update on that work, particularly in the context of the potential budget implications for the Crown Office.