Chamber and committees

Convener, if I may, I will come back to Mr MacGregor. This was never a constitutional issue—our concern was about good legislation. As you know, the legislation was announced with no consultation with the Scottish Government and with no background to it, so it has been accelerated to where we are today.

One thing that I would like to say to Mr MacGregor is that, initially, the UK Government estimated that there would be 10,000 dogs on the list. At present, the number is nearly 61,000. Out of those 61,000, only 200 owners have chosen not to keep their dogs. Therefore, the majority of dog owners are responsible dog owners, and I am confident and hopeful that that will happen in Scotland as well.

I just have not. It has not been on the agenda. I have been meeting stakeholders.

If I may, I will go through the timescale, because it is important that we are clear on how all of this happened.

On 15 September, the UK Government publicly announced that it was going to bring in an XL bully ban in England and Wales. There was no consultation with the Scottish Government. On 15 September, the Prime Minister announced that he had ordered the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to undertake the work to define and ban XL bully dogs in England and Wales, because the XL bully dog breed was not recognised by the main British dog associations or by the Kennel Club. DEFRA convened an expert group to specify a legal definition of the XL bully for the purpose of the ban in England and Wales, and that group met for the first time on 21 September 2023. Therefore, the regulations, legislation and detail for the ban were not available in early September, because the detail was just being planned as of 21 September.

On 29 September, I received a letter from the UK Government to advise that it would be putting in a ban in England and Wales, but it gave no timescale or detail.

On 2 October, the dog control coalition organisations—the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, the Scottish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, the British Veterinary Association, the Kennel Club, Blue Cross, Dogs Trust and Battersea—all withdrew from the Prime Minister’s DEFRA group, due to concerns over the rushed legislation.

On 31 October, the UK Government publicly announced the timescale that, by 31 December, people would not be able to give away XL bully dogs and that the dogs would have to be muzzled and on a lead. That was an eight-week period.

On 9 November, I sent a letter to the UK Government to say that we would not be following the same legislation and timescale. I did not say that we would not be following it at all; the concern was about the timescale because, at that stage, we would have had six weeks to get things in place by 31 December.

I had asked the UK Government about the potential loopholes in the legislation and the consequences for Scotland. On 14 December, I finally received a very vague answer from the UK Government. At that stage, we decided to bring in the legislation at pace after Christmas.

Every local authority should have a dog warden.

It is up to local authorities. Every local authority has the obligation to have a dog warden. I know that some local authorities, such as Perth and Kinross—

It would be up to each local authority to determine how many dog wardens they need. I am sure that local authorities might politically prioritise having more dog wardens. It is up to each local authority.

Initially, yes. That is the purpose of the first SSI. A second will be made soon.

I have been engaging with stakeholders, including in Scotland, and I am aware of all those concerns. I envisage, that, hopefully, we will not have the problems that are happening in England and Wales, because we are engaging with stakeholders on the legislation that we are bringing in.

The second SSI will come into effect on 1 August. We will lay it shortly and it will give all the timescales and details.

I come back to one detail from the engagement that we have had down south that might give you a little bit of confidence, which I mentioned to Mr MacGregor. Out of the 61,000 owners who registered in England and Wales, only 200 decided not to keep their XL bully. The majority of XL bully dog owners are responsible. The high numbers who registered have given me confidence that the pressures on vets will not be as predicted.

As of 23 February, under the first SSI, if you have an XL bully dog in public, you will need to have it on a lead and it will have to be muzzled. In addition, you will not be allowed to breed an XL bully dog, sell it, abandon it, let it stray or give it away.