Chamber and committees

Currently, trained practitioners and professionals are based in secure care centres, and specialists can be brought in to respond to the needs of children in their care. At the moment, there are no plans to change the legislation on access to health professionals, but officials are working with mental health colleagues to consider the specialist healthcare needs that many children in secure care might have and what additional support could be made available in the community. As I said, we will continue to monitor that throughout the bill’s passage and beyond.

That is a good point. I know that the committee has taken evidence that has raised concerns about capacity in the children’s hearings system. We expect that there could be up to 2,400 hearings, but we are working with the key stakeholders to ensure that capacity is in place.

It is feasible. We would not be carrying out the changes if they were not feasible. As I said, Children’s Hearings Scotland has said that it can cope with increasing capacity. The evidence is there for Mr Kerr.

In terms of safeguards, as you mentioned?

Absolutely—this is on-going work. The full details of what we currently have are set out in the financial memorandum. I will pass over to my official to go through some of that in more detail.

Yes. As I said, we are currently considering that as we take the bill forward.

I am sorry—how do my justice colleagues feel about what?

As I said, we are committed to incorporating the UNCRC, which defines a child as under 18. Obviously, in Scotland, there are a number of definitions of a child, and there are age-based laws that allow, for example, 16-year-olds to live independently, but complexity does not necessarily mean incoherence.

In some instances it can be appropriate to treat young people in the same way as adults, and that will strengthen their rights, but in other contexts, such as diverging from the criminal justice system, which is what we are discussing here, treating young people in a different way from adults will strengthen their rights. Treating them in this way within the criminal justice system gives them the best chance of rehabilitation.

I do not believe so. As I said, how we treat children in the criminal justice system is a very specific issue. Children who are 16 or 17 will still be able to make decisions for themselves, but treating them like this in the criminal justice setting will give them the best chance of rehabilitation.

We know that children at 16 or 17 do not necessarily make decisions based on long-term thinking, and, depending on how they have grown up, they may not necessarily fully understand the law or have a clear depiction of what is right and wrong.

Yes, but, as I have just said, complexity does not necessarily mean incoherence.