Chamber and committees

The Scottish Government recognises and values the unique role that childminders play in delivering early learning and childcare to families across Scotland and is of course keen to see our childminders supported in their professional capacity. I am therefore supportive of any additional support and assistance that is made available to our ELC professionals at local levels to aid their professional development.

Does Meghan Gallacher recognise that the full costings were worked out with key stakeholders and that we have committed to providing a supplementary financial memorandum, as is the usual process for legislation?

I understand that many concerns have been raised—these concerns were raised in the committee. Again, that is something on which I intend to update members during the debate.

In terms of public expenditure, it is important to recognise the wider backdrop of the benefits that those change programmes are advancing. The negative costs—

First, I thank the Education, Children and Young People Committee for its scrutiny of the bill, its detailed stage 1 report and its support for the general principles of the bill. Scotland and all the parties in Parliament committed to keeping the Promise by 2030, and the bill will implement various key aspects of the Promise and mark a significant step in that journey. Just last week, I spoke on the bill to more than 200 experts at the national youth justice conference in Stirling and there was warm support for its objectives and direction of travel.

Fundamentally, the bill provides that, when children come into contact with care and justice services or come into conflict with the law, that should happen in age-appropriate systems and settings. The bill also advances rights under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, and it brings consistency across various parts of care and justice legislation to the definition of a child as a person under 18. That approach builds on our getting it right for every child principles and on our youth justice vision to 2024.

Members will be aware, from the responses that have been given to calls for views and from expert evidence that has been given to committees, that there are inconsistencies in how Scotland treats particular 16 and 17-year-olds. Provided that it does not prevent children’s realisation of their rights or leave them vulnerable to harm, policy and legislation relating to children and young people may legitimately operate with different age thresholds.

That is encouraged under the UNCRC where this furthers children’s rights in line with evolving capacity. An example of this in Scotland is that children over 16 have the right to vote. However, where inconsistencies either have, or risk having, a harmful effect on children’s rights, we need to address that. In particular, we need to bring coherence—

I am sorry, but I cannot take another intervention at the moment—I have got a lot to get through.

The negative costs, both economic and social, to society of offending and crime—both at the time and into the future—are well documented. The Promise “follow the money” report estimated the cumulative private costs of physical and emotional harm to care-experienced children, lost output and public service costs to be £3.9 billion. Investing in services that take an early intervention approach can lead to more positive pathways for individuals and our communities.

We are coming from a strong baseline. Between 2008-09 and 2019-20, there was an 85 per cent reduction in the number of children and young people who were prosecuted in Scotland’s courts and a 93 per cent reduction in 16 and 17-year-olds being sentenced to custody. The Government is not complacent and recognises that there will always be a level of offending and a requirement for care and protection in any society, but the bill represents a solid step forward.

The Government has engaged widely to prepare cost forecasts. In addition to our full public consultation, extensive engagement has taken place with a host of partners and stakeholders. The cost forecasts that are in the financial memorandum are based on the feedback and figures that were provided in that engagement. I am aware that, as has been raised today, the stage 1 process has brought to light helpful additional detail and updated information. That is part and parcel of the legislative process, and we welcome it. The Government is alert to the need to ensure that forecasts are refreshed and are as up to date as possible.

That is why the multi-agency implementation group, which started meeting earlier this month, will be crucial to our preparations and to the bill’s later parliamentary stages. We will work with partners to explore in more depth individual and combined resource requirements and we will report any necessary updates or clarifications to the Parliament.

That work will feed into budget profiles for next year and the years beyond, as is the established process for financial planning for proposed legislation. We are mindful that parliamentary agreement is required, so we will keep projections refreshed as the bill is amended through scrutiny processes.

Secure care funding has been a key topic at stage 1. Earlier this year, we ran a last vacant bed funding pilot in each of the four independent secure care centres. I am happy to confirm that £4.6 million will be invested to extend that exercise to fund up to 16 secure beds, so that sufficient capacity will stand ready should the bill be passed. We are also looking closely at the appropriate mechanisms for funding remand costs, and we will update Parliament when we have concluded that work.

I turn briefly to cross-border placements. None of us wants children and young people to be removed from their communities and placed far away from home, family and friends. However, such arrangements need to be able to happen in some very exceptional circumstances. There must be rigour in how such placements are planned for and implemented, and it is vital that they are not detrimental to children’s rights. The bill will provide further powers to ensure that, for temporary placements, responsibility remains—rightly—with the placing authority, which knows the child and plans their care.

I would not agree that inconsistency always leads to confusion, no. I have been quite clear that when children’s rights can be furthered at that age, that is an appropriate thing to do, but where inconsistencies can have a harmful effect on children’s rights, we absolutely need to address that.

In particular, we need to bring coherence to how children experience the children’s hearings and criminal justice systems and how those two systems interplay. The bill makes provisions to improve the safeguards that are available to all children in the criminal justice system.

Yes, I will.

In May 2022, the Scottish Government awarded UNICEF UK a three-year grant to offer its rights respecting schools award to all state primary, secondary and special education needs schools in Scotland. During that period, the costs of participating in the programme are met at a national level rather than by individual schools or local authorities. That has removed local financial barriers to participation and secured an offer for all schools, with significant public sector efficiency savings. In the 2023-24 financial year, UNICEF UK will receive £300,000 from the Scottish Government for that purpose.

My colleagues and I have affirmed our commitment to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill on multiple occasions. The delay to that bill need not and should not prevent schools from building a rights respecting culture.

As well as the rights respecting schools awards, we are aware of other great practices under way in schools, including through the dignity in school programme, which is delivered by the Children’s Parliament. Education Scotland has also developed a professional learning module that aims to raise awareness and develops knowledge and understanding of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. It helps establishments to self-evaluate their practice in light of the UNCRC and supports improvement planning in them.

I think that I have been clear about my support for childminders who, as I have said, are a hugely valuable part of our ELC sector. I am always happy to consider any proposals that would aid the delivery of the Scottish Government’s policy on early learning and childcare. However, the posts that the member has referred to support delivery in local areas and I want to see local authorities, as commissioners of services, consider priority in their areas in the first instance.