Chamber and committees

Thank you, convener, and good morning, all. I am grateful to the committee for inviting me to give evidence. I welcome the opportunity to discuss the proposals in PE1958 to extend aftercare for previously looked-after young people and to remove the continuing care age cap.

I understand that the committee first discussed the petition on 31 May 2023 and that members listened in particular to the importance of ensuring that individuals are aware of their rights. The commencement of the incorporation of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child into Scots law gives us all, across the chamber, a golden opportunity to continue to promote public awareness and understanding of the rights of the child and the entitlements of those leaving care to the right help and support.

Listening to the challenges that are experienced by our young people who move on from care must and will continue to inform our approach to reducing the variation in the support that they receive.

Two weeks ago, it was care experience week. Appropriately, given the focus of what the committee heard in its previous session on the petition and some of what we will no doubt discuss today, the theme for this year’s events was lifelong rights for care-experienced people. The First Minister and I attended different events at which we met young people with lived experience and some practitioners who work alongside them. I have been really moved by many of the meetings and discussions that I have had so far with our care-experienced community. Equally, I have been wholly impressed with their passion and dedication to help to ensure that their experiences influence positive change for others.

During care experience week, the Scottish Throughcare and Aftercare Forum, which is known as STAF, launched its 100 days of listening consultation to understand what people with experience of care—and the workforce that supports them—need and want to happen for the Promise to be kept. I am pleased to say that my officials are working in close partnership with STAF to take forward that work. We are actively listening to people with lived experience to understand what it will take to remove the stigma and barriers that our care-experienced community face, so that they can achieve equality with their non-care-experienced peers.

In this year’s programme for government, we committed to launching a public consultation on what the broad package of support for care-experienced young people should include to support them into adulthood. The consultation will be launched in spring 2024 and will build on what we hear through the 100 days of listening consultation.

I want to reassure the committee that we are determined to review and co-design the policies and supports for people with experience of care alongside those with lived experience, so that we get it right for our young people and that they feel loved, cared for and respected and can flourish into independent adults.

We recognise the particular financial challenges that our care-experienced young people face when they move on to independent adult living, which is why, on 26 October, the First Minister announced our plans to consult on a care leaver payment of £2,000, to help young people transitioning from care to independent living.

I am acutely aware that our work across Government to keep the Promise requires a cohesive and co-ordinated approach across all our care, health, education and justice services, and I am extremely grateful to the carers, the workforce, the agencies and the stakeholders who work hard to provide the best environment for our children and young people in care. I also put on record my admiration and appreciation for the young people themselves, many of whom I have met during my time in this role, who continue to share their experiences of care and to champion the rights of people with care experience.

Finally, I welcome the committee’s interest in the petition, and I will be happy to answer any questions that members may have.

As I said in my opening remarks, the care that people receive is inconsistent, and we need to work on that. It is important that we listen to what young people and care-experienced people need.

I want to make it clear that “aftercare” refers to the advice, guidance and assistance that are provided to care leavers, which can include, but are not restricted to, advice and guidance on or assistance with the securing of accommodation, education and employment opportunities and financial support. As I said, we understand that there are inconsistencies there. For example, when young people leave care before their 16th birthday, they do not always benefit from smooth and well-supported transitions, which can leave them less well prepared for adulthood than their peers. It also means that they have no legal entitlement to the aftercare support that would have been available to them if they had left care after their 16th birthday.

The Promise makes it clear that lifelong advocacy is required to enable people with care experience to realise their rights, to thrive in life and to have a well-supported transition to adulthood. Throughout my time in this role, I have heard loud and clear that care experience stays with you for life. Therefore, such support needs to be available for people to tap into at key points in their life.

It is absolutely a priority for us to get it right for care-experienced people. As I have mentioned, we will take the learning from STAF’s 100 days of listening and the consultation that we will embark on in 2024 as we look to further expand our work in this area.

Absolutely. I have already referred to the visits that I have been on. Fantastic work is going on across our local authorities, who are best placed to understand what is needed in their areas. As I have already mentioned, the Promise covers many different aspects and policy areas. Local authorities have been very good at understanding what is needed in their areas and taking action accordingly. I have seen a lot of positive work on my visits, and our aim is to expand that work across the country. Obviously, capacity issues might affect that approach.

I appreciate that there has been an increase in the demand for, and the complexity of, the work that social work staff undertake and that currently there are recruitment and retention challenges there. Although local authorities are responsible for planning their workforces and ensuring that they have appropriate staff levels, we understand the issues that the sector faces, including that increase in demand. A number of actions are therefore being taken to improve matters.

A joint working group with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities has been established to address the issues immediately affecting the workforce. Members will be aware of the proposals for a national care service and, within that, the establishment of a national social work agency that would support and invest in the profession. However, I appreciate that that will not help immediately; it is a longer-term approach.

We have set up that joint working group with COSLA. We also have a national approach to workforce planning, which we hope will help to achieve the optimal future workforce capacity. A short-life working group has been created to oversee the development of that work and to produce up-to-date data on social work vacancies and demand for services there. I hope that that will allow us to facilitate planning and resource allocation at national level to meet the expected increase in demand. A workforce improvement plan has also been developed to address acute recruitment and retention challenges, and it will include workforce planning and workforce vacancy data.

Throughout all those initiatives, we are working collaboratively with COSLA, social work departments and the various agencies involved in the sector, which is hugely valued and around which the Government has created its aims and priorities. We are absolutely switched on to those and are trying to improve matters.

In my previous answer, I made the distinction between continuing care and aftercare. That can certainly be considered. There might be difficulties with somebody being placed in their place of care past the age of 21, because they are getting into adulthood at that point. That certainly would be considered, but the focus at the moment is on providing aftercare and continuing support throughout the lives of care-experienced people.

I completely appreciate that. I have already talked about the discrepancies that the member has mentioned, and it is good that the petition is highlighting those and the need for further support. Again, it is not clear whether that would have to be done through a legislative route. If that is the case then, as the member has mentioned, that would happen at a later date. However, there could be opportunities to improve guidance on and change the structures around the issue prior to that. Again, that will be defined by the work that I have already mentioned on the consultation and on listening to stakeholders.

We are taking actions at the moment. We are updating guidance to simplify language and improve the practice in continuing and aftercare services and provision. We are working closely with stakeholders, including young people with lived experience, providers and the workforce, to better understand the barriers and what might need to be done to remove them. The moving on change programme that I have referred to is actively seeking and facilitating opportunities to further take on board the views of people with experience of care. As much as I understand that you want us to move quickly, we need to get it right. We need to ensure that there is capacity and that it works for our children and young people.

I believe that that might answer your question, but I will bring in my officials in case there is anything that I have not touched on.

I do not have the relevant figures in front of me, but I know that a lot of good work to improve things is happening on the ground, through the Promise and other initiatives. I have been on several visits where there are virtual schools and different set-ups for learning to encourage or assist care-experienced people who might find it difficult to attend school, for whatever reason. I hope that that work will make an impact on the figures as we move forward, with the main aim being to improve the lives of care-experienced young people.

I will bring in my official to expand on the figures.

The aim of continuing care is to provide young people with a more graduated transition out of care, reducing the risk of multiple simultaneous disruptions occurring in their lives, while trying to maintain supportive relationships around them. I will make the distinction between that and aftercare, which refers to the advice, guidance and assistance that is provided to care leavers, as I alluded to in my answer to the previous question. As I said, we understand that there are inconsistencies.

The Promise has made it very clear that lifelong advocacy is required for people with care experience and, as I have said, we have heard loud and clear the calls from the care-experienced community.

I feel as though I am repeating myself, but I want to make it clear that we are determined to review and co-design the policies and supports and, if necessary, to legislate for people with experience of care, alongside those with lived experience and the practitioners who work with them. We will do so to ensure that we get it absolutely right for those people.

In response to your question, we would certainly consider amending the 2014 act, but that will be worked through once we have further information from the 100 days of listening and the consultation. Those measures will be considered if we think that that is right for children and young people, but I emphasise that we are listening to the voices of the care experienced and the organisations that are leading that work.

Guidance for that is absolutely explicit with regard to our expectation that corporate parents should work collaboratively with young people to deliver the integrated support that is required. The emphasis of that legislation, the regulations and the guidance is on ensuring that the young person is supported to develop in all aspects of their life.

As I have said, the guidance is absolutely explicit that the principles of getting it right for every child should be at the core of that pathway assessment, including everyone working together in local areas and across Scotland to improve those outcomes for children.

The children’s services planning strategic leads network—that is a very long title; I am surprised that I got it all out—is co-chaired with the Scottish Government. That is a national forum that promotes collaboration, shared learning and improvement activity at national and local level, between and across children’s services planning partnerships, the Scottish Government and key stakeholders. That is all done with the aim of strengthening the development, delivery and accountability of the children’s services planning partnerships, in line with the 2014 act.

On behalf of ministers, the Scottish Government undertakes a review of children’s services plans every three years against criteria set out in statutory guidance. That is all to support improvements at local and national level. We then publish a report that summarises areas of strength and areas where development is needed. I think that the most recent report was published in July 2022.

Again, we believe that lived experience should be absolutely core to all of that, so we have involved care-experienced young people directly in co-designing and co-producing services, so that they support care leavers effectively.

A lot of work is under way, with scrutiny and regular checks to ensure that the act is being implemented in practice.

I do not think so. I would just thank you for the opportunity to come along. As I have said, the petition has done a really good job of highlighting some of the inconsistencies, and I look forward to working on that and working towards our shared goals.

I thank my colleague the Minister for Public Health and Women’s Health, Jenni Minto, for opening this important debate, and I am grateful for the contributions from members on this extremely important topic.

Although I do not agree with all the points that have been made this afternoon, I think that the passion that has been shown in the debate demonstrates the importance that we all place on early child development and getting it right for every child. I advise members who have not accessed the briefing on the transformational change programme that it can be viewed on the Scottish Parliament information centre section of the intranet. In response to Meghan Gallacher, I say that the aim of the programme, as was set out by Jenni Minto in her opening speech, is to reduce early child development concerns by a quarter by 2030. That is included in the briefing.

In Scotland we are globally recognised for our work to prioritise early child development and support families. However, I fully recognise the need to do more for our youngest children, and the transformational change programme will do just that. It will strengthen the importance of early child development across Government portfolios. We will work with services and practitioners to hear about what they need and when they need it. We will also listen to parents and children, and we will do all that we can do to give them the capacity and agency to make choices and achieve their life goals and aspirations.

I will try to respond to as many as possible of the points that members raised in the debate.

First, I want to consider poverty. We need to continue a relentless focus on reducing child poverty. Many families who are affected by poverty have very young children, and evidence shows that younger parents and single parents are disproportionately affected. We know that the actions that the Scottish Government is taking are making a difference. I appreciate that members raised that point in the debate.