Chamber and committees

I thank all the members who have contributed to the debate. It is clear that there is cross-party consensus that we should do everything that we can to improve the experience of transitions to adulthood for disabled young people.

With transitions to adulthood sometimes being described—as they have been in the chamber today—as a cliff edge, it is clear that the current situation in respect of disabled young people’s experiences of their transitions needs to improve. As I stated earlier, I am grateful for the evidence that was provided to the committee as it brought together its stage 1 report. I assure members that we are absolutely alive to some of the concerns that have been raised in that report, as well as the concerns that have been raised in the chamber today.

I have already stated that we are committed to improving the transitions experiences of disabled young people. Although I have clearly heard that the whole chamber agrees with the aims of the bill, I agree with the committee and the many stakeholder groups that the bill is not the best way to deliver those aims.

I will respond to some of the comments that have been made during today’s debate. Willie Rennie and other members asked whether we are doing anything to clear the landscape. The answer is yes. We have stated very clearly in the statement of intent that we want a strategy that can complement and help bring a more co-ordinated and joined-up approach to the broad landscape, so that young people, their families and practitioners who support them are better able to navigate it. One way of doing that is through our cross-policy working group to ensure that our policies are better joined up. We have also provided funding to ARC to develop Compass, to help young families and practitioners navigate those transitions more smoothly. Going forward, transitions planning and support should be person centred, responding flexibly to the unique needs and aspirations of each young person.

Pam Duncan-Glancy asked about similarities between who the bill would cover and who the strategy will cover. Although the statement of intent proposes the Equality Act 2010 definition of disability, it does not require a diagnosis, but the bill, as drafted, does. We have heard the concerns that have been raised around that today. The non-statutory nature of the strategy means that it does not impose transitions plans on young people who do not need or want them, nor does it explain how local authorities would identify disabled young people in order to fulfil its duties.

Possibly every member who has contributed to the debate has, rightly, raised concerns about what we are doing now. They have asked how young disabled people will benefit prior to the publication of the strategy.

The Government is working to improve transitions, because we have heard, loudly and clearly, the voices of those who have told us that more needs to be done. We have supported the Association for Real Change Scotland’s principles into practice programme. The purpose of that is to improve the lived experiences of young people who need additional support to make the transition to young adult life, and to ensure that young people are at the centre of planning for their future.

We have committed a further two years of funding to the Association for Real Change Scotland, through the children, young people, families and adult learning third sector fund, to continue that work, alongside supporting other projects. We also continue to support Independent Living Fund Scotland’s transition fund to assist young disabled people in making a smoother transition from childhood to adulthood by promoting independence, community participation, social inclusion and confidence. Since 2017, more than £10 million has been awarded to more than 5,000 young people.

That is not what I am arguing here. During the debate, we have heard clearly the concerns that have been raised about the bill. I am just answering members’ comments about what we are doing now, ahead of the publication of the strategy next year.

In October 2023, we published our “Getting it right for every child (GIRFEC): child’s plan” practice statement. It includes new guidance for transitions, which outlines that particular consideration should be given to disabled children and young people. The GIRFEC child’s plan could be used—

Thank you, Presiding Officer.

With apologies to Pam Duncan-Glancy, as I said earlier, I will come on to those points. For now, I am just laying out my concerns, which were reiterated by the committee’s convener.

It is also unclear who would be responsible for managing and implementing individual transition plans, particularly when a young person has left school. The bill mandates a plan for each young person, even if a young person does not want one. I believe that planning should be person led and that it should adapt flexibly to what the young person finds most helpful.

The committee has also recognised concerns, which the Government highlighted in its evidence at stage 1, about

“duplication and overlap of key aspects of existing legislation”.

The committee’s report concludes that the bill risks creating

“additional complexity and confusion”

for

“disabled young people and their families, as well as for professionals trying to navigate this landscape”.

That has been mirrored in feedback from stakeholders; many stakeholders who responded to the committee’s call for views or provided evidence raised similar concerns. The Convention of Scottish Local Authorities said that it

“does not support the call for a new Bill as there is significant Legislation already in place.”

The Association of Directors of Education in Scotland suggested that

“there is reasonable and appropriate legislation already in place”.

The Association for Real Change Scotland said that it continues

“to have multiple concerns about whether the Bill in its present form will meet its intended aims.”

We agree with the findings of the committee, and many of those who provided views to it, including COSLA and a number of local authorities and integration joint boards, on the uncertainty of the bill’s cost implications and the likely underestimation in the financial memorandum.

It is clear that, should the bill progress to stage 2, it would require substantial amendment to address the legal and practical issues that have been raised.

I reiterate my thanks to Pam Duncan-Glancy for her tireless work on this important matter. I will continue to work with her on our shared ambition of improving transitions for disabled young people, regardless of the outcome of today’s debate. However, for the reasons that I have set out, the Scottish Government agrees with the committee’s conclusions and with the view—which has been expressed by COSLA, organisations such as the Association for Real Change Scotland and others—that the bill will not necessarily deliver on its laudable aim of resolving the issues that are experienced by disabled young people. I am sure that the focus and the priority that we are taking forward will do that.

We are already taking action now, through the statement of intent. We are listening to feedback and encouraging further action. As I said, the strategy, which will be published by the end of next year, will involve direct input from the statement of intent.

I thank Pam Duncan-Glancy for the spotlight that her bill has shone on transitions to adulthood for disabled people and for setting out her personal experience in her contribution today. I also pay tribute to those who have worked with her on developing the bill.

I express my appreciation to the convener, Sue Webber, and all the members of the Education, Children and Young People Committee for their thorough consideration of the bill and for their comprehensive report.

Like everyone here, I whole-heartedly share Pam Duncan-Glancy’s ambitions to improve the experiences of and outcomes for disabled young people as they make the transition to young adult life. Becoming an adult is an extremely important time in any young person’s life. It can be exciting, but it can also be daunting. It can be a time of hope, but it can also be a time of uncertainty.

There are already examples of good practice across Scotland. For example, the committee heard about the benefits of transitions co-ordinators, the experiences that young people are having at Buchanan high school, which the committee visited, and the work of the Association for Real Change Scottish Transitions Forum and the Enable Works stepping up programme, which are both funded by the Scottish Government.

However, we absolutely recognise that, at the moment, too many disabled young people are not getting the support that they need. I have followed closely the stage 1 evidence on the bill and have heard young people, their families and practitioners share experiences that fall well short of what they need and have the right to expect.

The Scottish Government is deeply committed to improving transitions for disabled young people, so that they can all have a positive and supported experience. We recognise the challenges that were raised in the committee’s evidence in relation to disabled young people’s experiences of their transition to adulthood, and we are resolutely determined to do more.

We have already given non-statutory effect to two of the bill’s main provisions. That has been done through the joint ministerial leadership for transitions by me and the Minister for Equalities, Migration and Refugees, and through the commitment to introduce Scotland’s first national transitions to adulthood strategy.

In response to Pam Duncan-Glancy’s question, I am pleased to confirm that we will aim to publish the strategy by the end of next year. That is an integral part of our work to improve transitions for disabled young people. On 28 September 2023, we published our statement of intent on the strategy. That sets out the proposed scope of, and vision and priorities for, the strategy, which are based on what we have heard through research and stakeholder engagement to date. Accompanying the published statement of intent is an online survey that will be open until the end of November 2023. The survey provides a vital opportunity for us to hear directly from more people with lived experience, and we are keen to capture the widest possible feedback.

I am sorry to hear that that is the case. As I have said, I am setting out the range of actions that we are taking, but we appreciate that we absolutely need to go further. As I have said, that will be a result of the proposed strategy.

We have continued to provide funding to enable the stepping up transitions programme, which connects disabled young people with fair work, education and productive activities that are designed to support a successful transition into adult life and work. We are committed, by 2026, to helping all school leavers to access the transition support that they need to achieve their potential, and to ensuring that young people can further their education or secure a job or training place. We have implemented the introduction of developing the young workforce school co-ordinators across all 32 local authorities, and we will have more.

We are supporting improved implementation of existing statutory duties for planning under the legislation on additional support for learning. We are also working with local government partners to deliver the additional support for learning action plan by the end of this parliamentary term.

Further actions include updating the transition planning advice in our statutory guidance and improving the information that is provided to young people and their parents on accessing their rights. The feedback that we have heard through that process will directly inform the delivery of the work and will help to ensure that transitions planning happens more consistently and at an early enough stage.

Of course, we are also bringing forward Scotland’s first national transitions to adulthood strategy, which we aim to publish by the end of 2024. I understand the concerns of Pam Duncan-Glancy and many others about how we know that that strategy will make the change that we all want to see, when actions of the past have not necessarily got us to where we want to be. The strategy will be subject to robust and regular monitoring and review to ensure that it delivers on its intended aims and remains in focus.

Today, I commit to making the strategy available to Parliament so that it can benefit from the scrutiny of members across the chamber and the input of their collective expertise. To that end, I again recognise the work that Pam Duncan-Glancy has done on the bill and reiterate my commitment to working closely with her as we develop the strategy.

Each of us in the chamber shares the same goal of improving the lives of disabled children and young people in Scotland. The debate has highlighted where progress needs to be made. This Government is resolutely committed to delivering that progress, and we will work collaboratively with people inside and outside the Parliament in doing so. By working together, we can ensure that all disabled young people making the transition to adulthood in Scotland are empowered to achieve their full potential.

I will come on to much of that later in my speech. If Pam Duncan-Glancy is happy for me to do so, I will set that out as I go along. I absolutely want things to happen faster, and where I can push for further change, I absolutely will.

I will now turn to the bill and say why, despite my gratitude to Pam Duncan-Glancy and those who have supported her in her work, I agree with the committee’s conclusion that the bill is unlikely to be the most effective way to make the required improvements. In its stage 1 report, the Education, Children and Young People Committee raised a number of important questions about the bill, including, in particular, how it would work in practice and whether it would deliver on its intended goals. Sue Webber has just highlighted some of those concerns, and the Government shares many of them. In particular, the bill would require local authorities to develop an individual transition plan for each disabled young person in a local authority area, but it remains unclear exactly who would be covered by the bill and how they would be identified.

The member said that the Government does not want to take the bill to stage 2, but clearly she is hearing concerns, not only from the committee but from across the chamber, about how the legislation is not necessarily the right way to achieve the aims.

I thank all those members who have taken part in the debate; we have heard some really thoughtful speeches this evening. I also thank Stuart McMillan for lodging this important motion to recognise children’s grief awareness week.

I believe whole-heartedly that, where children have suffered trauma and loss, they deserve appropriate support. We know through research that bereavement during childhood can have significant and long-lasting effects on emotional, psychological and social wellbeing. Key impacts include struggling to understand and process emotions, leading to potential long-term issues.

Childhood is a critical period for development, and the loss of a loved one can disrupt a child’s developmental trajectory. It can affect their ability to form secure attachments, develop a sense of identity and navigate relationships with others. They may experience difficulties in school as a result of emotional distress, they may have trouble concentrating and experience a decline in academic performance, and they may have difficulty interacting with peers and teachers.

The loss of a loved one can lead to social isolation and withdrawal, with children struggling to engage in social activities, form new friendships and maintain existing relationships. That can further exacerbate those feelings of loneliness and grief. Childhood bereavement has also been linked to a higher risk of mental health issues in adulthood, and research concludes that it is crucial to provide timely, appropriate support and interventions to mitigate those possible long-term impacts.

I assure members that I take this subject very seriously. I was two years old when I lost my dad and, at that time, there was very little support available for me or for my mum. We need to remember that support is also really important for those around the child; Martin Whitfield and Jamie Greene picked up on that specifically. I want to highlight, in particular, that support is not a one-stop shop. Support for me at two years old would have been helpful, but there are numerous points in a child’s life, following such an experience, when support could be required. I know that, as a child growing up, it is extremely hard to deal with the loss of a parent. That includes having to deal with questions from peers in school, the stigma—which there was for me—that comes with the death of a parent, and not having a clear understanding of why this has happened and why you are the one who has lost a parent. It is hard and, honestly, the lack of support that I received still impacts on me to this day.

I therefore express my gratitude and appreciation for the bereavement support services that we have in Scotland today, especially during challenging and unprecedented times such as the Covid-19 pandemic, as Stuart McMillan mentioned. Those services play an invaluable role in providing comfort and guidance to children and their families who have experienced the profound loss of a loved one. I am proud that, since 2016, the children, young people and families early intervention and adult learning and empowering communities fund has provided funding of more than £14 million annually to 115 organisations, including Child Bereavement UK, Richmond’s Hope and Apex Scotland—many of them have been named in the chamber today—that provide much-needed support to children and young people who have suffered a loss through bereavement. I thank members who have highlighted the important work of those vital organisations.

I would also like to thank Ben Kane. As has been highlighted by all members today, Ben’s commitment to raising awareness and increasing support for those who have been impacted by bereavement has been admirable. The support group that Ben set up offers a safe place for people to find comfort in and to talk about their grief. I welcome that important work, and I am sure that many young people have found it extremely helpful.

The Scottish Government recognises that bereavement can affect many aspects of our lives, so it reaches across many different ministerial portfolios. We have therefore set up a cross-policy bereavement network that aims to support a more joined-up approach, be more strategic across existing and planned Government action and provide a single point of access for bereavement partners. That will ensure that there is collective ministerial responsibility to ensure that those who are experiencing bereavement can access the support that they need.

In 2020, we established the national childhood bereavement co-ordinator to look at the range of bereavement services that are available for young people across Scotland. That work was carried out over a two-year period, and a final report with recommendations for improvement was published in September 2022. Following that, the Scottish bereavement summit was held on 13 October, and the final report of the summit, with its 10 recommendations, as has been touched upon, was published in June.

The recommendations were based on those that came from the childhood co-ordinator and four previous bereavement reports. The Scottish Government welcomes those reports and acknowledges the huge amount of work and collaboration that has gone into developing them and the focus that they bring to improving the experience of those who are affected by grief and loss.

I understand that Stuart McMillan and other members are looking for an update on the recommendations in the report. I can confirm that the Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport has agreed to meet three key bereavement stakeholders on 14 December 2023. In advance of that, the Scottish Government’s cross-policy bereavement network will continue to engage with the bereavement sector as we consider how best to take forward those findings.

As a Government, we will continue to engage with and listen to the bereavement sector. I am clear that we require a collaborative approach to supporting those who have suffered bereavement. I hope that, by sharing my personal experience, members will appreciate that I fully understand the importance of ensuring that that support is available when it is required and my commitment to doing that.

I close by reiterating my thanks to all members for participating in such an important debate and to Stuart McMillan for bringing it to the chamber this evening.

Absolutely. Obviously, I hope that it does not get to that stage. As I said, we have already had positive feedback from local authorities that have already implemented the new system, and I hope that, by the end of the financial year, we will have positive feedback that shows that it has been implemented across the board. However, I am happy to share information with the committee if required.