Chamber and committees

The flexibility is positive and shows that we are taking a person-centred approach.

I will move on to theme 4. We have touched somewhat on this, but I want a bit more clarity. Can you give us a general update on how recruitment of the additional 2,000 staff is progressing? Specifically, how is recruitment of case managers and specialist practitioners progressing? I know that you mention that in your letter.

I would also like to ask again about training. How are we taking people on and how will they deal with people who apply for disability benefits? We have all heard horror stories about how people have been treated by the DWP. How will you ensure that with this most complex of benefits, support and respect will be adhered to at all times?

Your answers have been very informative, which I appreciate. I have a more general question that follows on from an issue that I raised at last week’s meeting. The legislation is, as always, full of jargon and is not very easy to read, so I would like confirmation from the minister that there will be guidance on eligibility criteria that will be simple and easy for people to understand. That is in relation to CDP and ADP.

Good morning and welcome to the committee’s third meeting in 2022. Our former convener, Neil Gray, was appointed as Minister for Culture, Europe and International Development on Tuesday and therefore resigned from his convenership. We wish Neil all the best in his new post and thank him for all the work he has done for the committee.

I welcome to the committee Elena Whitham MSP, who will replace Neil Gray as a committee member. Apologies have been received from Emma Roddick MSP and we welcome Evelyn Tweed MSP back to the committee as Emma’s substitute. Before we turn to the appointment of our new convener, I invite Elena to declare any relevant interests.

We move to the appointment of a new convener. On 15 June 2021, the Parliament agreed that members of the Scottish National Party are eligible to be chosen as convener of the committee. I nominate Elena Whitham to be our convener.

Elena Whitham was chosen as convener.

We have touched on a couple of the points that I was going to raise, but I will seek a little bit more clarification on theme 3, then move on to theme 4.

The flexibility that we are giving 16-year-olds to apply from age 16 to age 18 is positive. Can you give me a bit more information on the sentiments and reasoning behind why you have chosen to do that?

We have also touched on local delivery services; I would like you to elaborate on that. From the information you have been given, do you feel that they will have a strong role in helping people to transfer from child disability payment to ADP?

I welcome the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee in the Parliament’s first pre-budget debate of the session. I have gladly stepped in today because the former convener, Neil Gray, has been appointed Minister of Culture, Europe and International Development. I hope that the chamber will join me in wishing him well in his new role. He has led the committee with great drive and passion to ensure that we focus our efforts on addressing poverty.

Our predecessor committee’s legacy report stressed that measures to tackle poverty span several committee remits. At times, there has been a lack of clarity around which committee should take the lead in scrutinising this important policy area. My committee has used its extended social justice remit to focus its budget considerations on the cross-cutting issue of poverty and spending on social security.

During this parliamentary session, we hope to bring together committees with a shared focus on tackling poverty and social inequality. Meeting our child poverty targets is a national responsibility that is shared between Parliament and Government, and that is why the committee chose the Scottish Government’s progress in meeting the interim targets for 2023-24 as the central focus of its pre-budget scrutiny.

Our ability to meet those targets has been made much harder as families face reductions in household income, price rises and the withdrawal of Covid-19 support measures such as the £20 universal credit uplift. This year, the convener, along with UK committee chair counterparts, wrote to the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions to call for the £20 universal credit uplift to be made permanent and to be extended to legacy benefits, which are disproportionately claimed by disabled people. Families on the lowest incomes; those with children, and particularly single parents; black, Asian and minority ethnic families; and families in which someone is disabled are disproportionately affected by the ending of the uplift.

Modelling that was carried out by the Child Poverty Action Group suggested that as many as 22,000 children in Scotland would be pushed into poverty due to the removal of the uplift, and third sector organisations advised that the cut would result in indebtedness, rent arrears and homelessness for families. We felt that there was compelling evidence that the Scottish child payment should be doubled. We therefore welcome the fact that the budget now commits an additional £103 million, bringing investment to £197 million overall.

The committee recognises that social security will have to do the heavy lifting in the short term and that other levers that are available to the Scottish Government, such as tackling low pay and reducing housing costs, could take longer to achieve results. However, we are keen for the Scottish Government to continue to prioritise increasing access to childcare and improving employment prospects to reduce child poverty.

Poverty is gendered. While giving evidence to the committee, Satwat Rehman from One Parent Families Scotland relayed a quote from a parent that summarises the difficulties that working parents face. That parent said:

“Childcare costs are crippling—I earn what I always considered to be a reasonable salary, but it costs more than I earn to send my two children to nursery for only 3 days a week.”

We are aware that women and people with disabilities face challenges in finding good employment opportunities and suitable childcare. The committee welcomes the Scottish Government’s expansion of funded early learning to all one and two-year olds, starting with children from low-income households in this session of Parliament.

Women have withstood more caring responsibilities during the pandemic. Eilidh Dickson of Engender advised:

“Women have also experienced labour market disruption because of the distribution of care, which was removed from the state back into the household over the pandemic: care for children, care for older people and care for disabled people.”—[Official Report, Social Justice and Social Security Committee, 7 October 2021; c 12, 3.]

When scrutinising the Carer’s Allowance Supplement (Scotland) Bill, we heard that carers are looking for more assistance in relation to respite care. The committee notes that the Scottish Government’s budget includes £20.4 million to expand local carer support, including short breaks, to meet increasing demand under the Carers (Scotland) Act 2016. The committee will monitor whether that has the desired impact.

On behalf of the committee, I thank all those who contributed evidence to inform our pre-budget letter. It is evident from our deliberations that a preventative approach to spending is needed to maintain the sustainability of anti-poverty measures and the social security budget.

As I have referred to throughout my contribution, social security is an investment in people. However, the social security budget is demand led, and therein lie risks. On 23 December, Dame Susan Rice from the Scottish Fiscal Commission advised the committee that the commission forecasts that spending on devolved social security will rise by £400,000 to £4.1 billion in 2022-23 and will

“reach £5.5 billion in 2026-27, once the full costs of the adult disability payment and the Scottish child payment are included.”—[Official Report, Social Justice and Social Security Committee, 23 December 2021; c 2-3.]

The commission told us:

“by 2026-27 spending on the Scottish Government’s social security benefits will be £760 million more than the corresponding funding received”

through the block grant adjustment, thereby

“reducing the funding available for other parts of the Scottish Budget.”

The hybrid benefits system means that UK Government decisions can impact on Scottish Government policies, as we have seen with the cut to the universal credit uplift. Scotland is also reliant on UK infrastructure and data sharing to deliver benefits. It is clear from our scrutiny that we need a more joined-up approach in which the principle of devolution of social security is honoured. That is illustrated in the recent minutes from the joint ministerial working group on welfare, which highlight the Scottish Government’s concerns about infrastructure in the Department for Work and Pensions to deliver the Scottish child payment for six to 15-year-olds by the end of this year.

I take this opportunity to appeal to committees to look at ways to tackle poverty through their remits. We have called on Government departments to work together to reduce the potential long-term demands on the social security budget. We hope that, with committees, Government departments and national Governments working together, everyone can redouble their efforts to make headway in tackling poverty and social inequality once and for all.

Thank you both.

Good morning, minister. My first question has just been answered, so I will move on to my two further questions.

One thing that makes Scotland’s deposit return scheme so ambitious compared with schemes in other countries is the inclusion of glass. That has been criticised by some, and there are concerns that, if the scheme leads to more glass being crushed, that might mean less glass recyclate available for the industry. Can the minister guarantee that that will not happen?

I thank the panel. The discussion has been very informative.

This is another quick question. We have talked a lot about partnership work in local authorities, and I want to get your views on some of the partnership mechanisms that are highlighted in the updated climate change plan. For example, I am thinking about the Grangemouth future industry board, the National Manufacturing Institute Scotland, which is in my constituency, and Dundee’s Michelin Scotland Innovation Parc. Given the tone of this morning’s conversation, I assume that you are quite positive about such arrangements.

Thank you for confirming that.

We have also heard concerns from parts of the industry that have raised issues about legacy containers, by which I mean containers of products that were produced prior to the regulations coming into force. That seems to be a particular issue for producers and retailers of products such as whisky, which can sit on shelves for a long period. Can the minister clarify exactly how such containers will be covered by the scheme?