Plenary, 25 Sep 2003

Meeting date: Thursday, September 25, 2003

Official Report 693KB pdf

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Question Time

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SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE

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Planning Appeals (Consultation)

To ask the Scottish Executive when it will consult on proposed new rights of appeal in planning cases. (S2O-503)

We announced in our white paper, "Your place, your plan", published in March, that we would issue a consultation paper during 2003. We are still working towards that target and we intend to publish our paper before the end of the year.

Will the minister tell us whether any assessment has been undertaken in advance of the consultation about the number of applications that are likely to be improved or not submitted in the first place if third-party rights of appeal are introduced?

A whole host of issues will be considered in the consultation paper. We have set up a stakeholder group to construct the consultation and to ensure that all those issues are addressed in the paper. That information will be issued when the consultation paper is released.

Although I support the urgent need for a qualified third-party right of appeal, does the minister agree that there is a need for a comprehensive reform of the planning system, and not only for the third-party right of appeal? In particular, does she agree that there is a need to support local objectors who might be up against the resources of big business and developers? Further, does she agree that there is an urgent need to ensure that decisions in the planning system are clear and transparent?

I recognise that a number of people are concerned about the involvement of individuals and community groups in the planning system. That is why we are committed to reviewing the issue and, in particular, the assistance that is given to local community groups. Just a few weeks ago, I announced an additional £50,000 for Planning Aid for Scotland, which is intended specifically to assist local groups that are taking part in the planning process. I hope that Pauline McNeill accepts that that is one way in which the Executive can ensure that there is a level playing field in the planning system.

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Social Economy (Support)

To ask the Scottish Executive how it plans to support the growth of social firms and the social economy. (S2O-471)

In January, I published "A review of the Scottish Executive's Policies to promote the Social Economy", which was supported by £6 million of new funding. An action plan to implement the report's recommendations is being developed and will be published in the near future.

Will the minister assure members that the action plan will aim to create a level playing field by addressing some of the obstacles that prevent organisations in the social economy from becoming more involved in public service delivery? In particular, will the action plan address the financial constraints that social economy organisations face? The organisations are unable to access many of the financial services that are available to other types of business. In addition, the application process for grant funding needs to be simplified and speeded up.

Yes, I give the member the reassurance that he seeks. Before I come to the detail of that, I congratulate Social Firms Scotland on its work on the social economy and on its significant contribution to this debate. Representatives of the organisation are in the gallery this afternoon and I welcome them. [Applause.]

On the point that Bill Butler raised, significant work is going on. I guarantee that the action plan will examine the detail of how we create a level playing field and how we recognise the challenges that social firms face. I have been talking to the financial institutions to ensure that their good offices can be used to support the social economy in Scotland and, indeed, to ensure that we consider some of the wider issues around business organisation that will help social firms to develop.

Money from the phoenix fund has had a positive impact in England through the provision of support for the development of social firms and for other forms of social enterprise. Will the minister explain why such money was not made available to the sector in Scotland? Will she confirm that the Executive will ensure that Scotland's allocation of phoenix fund money will now be ring fenced for the development of social firms and for other forms of social enterprise in Scotland?

I am not sure whether the member is aware of the work that the Scottish Executive did before the election in relation to the social economy, of which we see social firms as part. We have developed a comprehensive approach to the issue and have launched the report that I mentioned.

We are about to publish an action plan that will consider in detail the issues that the member has raised. I will bring that before Parliament at the appropriate time.

Is the minister aware of McSence, which is the biggest community business in Scotland and is situated in Mayfield in my constituency? Is she also aware that, this year, McSence won the New Statesman social enterprise of the year award and the Queen's jubilee award for social enterprises in Scotland? Will the minister agree to visit McSence the next time she is in Midlothian or, indeed, ask the First Minister if he might consider visiting such a successful example of social enterprise?

I have just asked the First Minister and he has suggested that we could go together. It would be an interesting day out for both of us, I am sure.

That would be quite a social partnership.

Indeed. I am sure that it would be quite an interesting event for me in particular.

Moving rapidly on, I believe that Rhona Brankin draws our attention to the significant work that can be undertaken by enterprises such as the one that she mentions in relation to not only the social aspect but the economic aspect of their work. It is the joining together of the social and the economic that is vital to the work of social businesses and I am committed to that. I am sure that the Scottish Executive can make significant progress in that area.

The Social Firms Scotland briefing paper on the subject of people with mental health problems moving into work states that stigma and discrimination are

"the most significant barriers to employment aspirations".

Will the minister condemn the unacceptable and inappropriate smears that Mike Rumbles made in the chamber this morning and distance members of her party from those shameful comments about people with mental health problems?

I am sure that Mary Scanlon will forgive me if I do not comment on that matter as I do not know what she is referring to.

I am glad that the minister responded in that way. I feel that Mary Scanlon's comment is absolutely inappropriate for this situation. Does the minister agree?

Yes.

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Aggregates

To ask the Scottish Executive how much land-banked aggregate there is in Scotland and where information is kept on mineral permissions granted by local authorities. (S2O-501)

Land-bank statistics have not been collated on a national basis since 1993. However, information on mineral permissions that have been granted will be available from local authorities.

Today the Scottish Executive announced a major review of its guidance for quarrying and mineral extraction. Will the minister assure the chamber that the review will move Scotland away from the old predict-and-provide approach to mineral working and will instead encourage a system that manages demand for minerals, gives priority to the reuse and recycling of minerals and aggregates, protects our environment and communities from the negative impacts of mining and quarrying and maintains accurate data?

I am pleased that the member is aware that we have announced a review of the national planning policy guideline 4. The intention is to seek as many views as possible on how that policy guideline can be improved. It has worked successfully for 10 years, but we are not complacent and we realise that there might be areas in which we can improve.

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Inshore Fisheries (Protection)

To ask the Scottish Executive under what circumstances it would consider enforcing a 3-mile exclusion zone for the protection of inshore fisheries. (S2O-483)

As part of the strategic review of inshore fisheries, we recently conducted a consultation to establish the circumstances in which various fisheries management tools would be most effective and appropriate. We are analysing the responses to that consultation and we expect the conclusions from the overall strategic review to be available at the end of the year.

The minister will be aware of—and, I am sure, will have welcomed—the recent formation of a Galloway static gear fishermen's association. It was formed because of concern that 20 sustainable local jobs were threatened by the activities of a factory ship that had arrived to plunder the waters of Luce bay in my constituency. Does the minister agree that those marine crofters and the stocks on which they depend deserve protection from such commercial over-activity? Does he agree that a 3-mile exclusion zone is the only effective way of ensuring their sustainability? If that is agreed to be the best way forward, as I sincerely hope that it will be, will the minister give me a time scale within which we can expect him to implement such a measure?

I am happy to acknowledge Alex Fergusson's consistent interest in this constituency matter. I am grateful to him for the positive way in which he has engaged with my department as part of the strategic review.

I hope that Alex Fergusson will accept that nomadic fishing is part and parcel of Scottish fishing. Producing a solution for one area runs the risk of simply displacing the activity around the coastline. The Executive has a broader responsibility to come up with a strategic policy for inshore fisheries management. In that context, I refer him back to my first answer. By the end of the year, we will have concluded our consultation and review. Having exclusive bands or banning vessels of a certain meterage are options that we are examining. We will have to come up with a solution that not only deals with Mr Fergusson's problem but is consistent in its application throughout the inshore fisheries.

I have already said quite a lot about fish in the chamber today. The minister says that he will present the results of the consultation at the end of the year, but will he tell us how much consultation has taken place with producers and processors throughout Scotland? Many people have an interest in this matter.

We have consulted widely. I do not have the numbers to hand but I will provide the member with that information. In particular, we have consulted all the inshore fisheries organisations, because we have come to the view that there are opportunities for us to treat the fishery within the 12-mile zone more comprehensively. It is in all our interests to avoid some of the mistakes that have taken place in the wider waters.

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Nursery Nurses

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to resolve the nursery nurses dispute. (S2O-505)

The Scottish Executive will continue to encourage the local authorities and unions to keep talking in order to reach a settlement that is fair for the nursery nurses and financially sustainable for the local authorities.

Pay and conditions are a matter for employers, and this dispute must be resolved between the local authorities and the trade unions. I note that some local discussions are taking place and that in at least one area—South Lanarkshire, I believe—a settlement has been agreed.

Does the minister agree that that answer is a complete cop-out? It is a betrayal of a section of very low-paid workers. The Executive is responsible for the early-years curriculum and the extra responsibilities that have been put on nursery nurses, so surely it should take responsibility for increasing the pay of those workers. I want to ask the minister a direct question and I want him please to give us an answer. Does he think that our nursery nurses are worth £18,000 to £21,000 annually?

I repeat what I just said. The Executive has encouraged a fair settlement for nursery nurses and one that is financially sustainable for local authorities. The member must understand that, under the single-status agreement—which the trade unions signed up to—negotiations are carried out at local level. That is where negotiations should take place and that is where they are taking place.

I declare an interest as a member of Unison and the mother of a registered nursery nurse.

Will the minister give a commitment to give greater consideration than he was able to give last night to the many suggestions that were made by members who participated in the members' business debate? Will he give immediate attention to engaging the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities in constructive negotiation with those who represent nursery nurses throughout Scotland to resolve the dispute?

The member made a very eloquent contribution to last night's debate and I thanked her for it. During the debate, I said that of course the Executive would take away members' comments and examine them. I can only repeat what I said last night, which is that COSLA initiated discussions on behalf of the local authorities, but when the national negotiations appeared to come to an end, the single-status agreement—which, I repeat, the trade unions signed—meant that the negotiations returned to the local authorities. The individual local authorities are negotiating with the trade unions. As I understand it, that is what was anticipated in the single-status agreement.

Will the minister explain why the Executive has been willing to intervene to secure equitable pay and career structures for nursery teachers through the McCrone deal but continues to allow nursery nurses to be hung out to dry and picked off on a local basis by their local authority employers?

The Executive has always said that it looks to a fair settlement for the nursery nurses, and one that is financially sustainable for local authorities. The point is that we are in the middle of a series of negotiations. Is the member suggesting that, whenever negotiations take place between employer and employee, somehow or other the Scottish Executive should intervene? I do not think that that should be the case.

Is the minister aware that the Executive's own statistics show that, while the number of local authority pre-education places has increased by 4 per cent from last year, the number of local education authority staff who provide that service has decreased by 13 per cent? Will the Executive address the matter of increased work load and increased responsibilities of pre-school education staff as well as trying to ensure a much fairer deal for nursery nurses?

Those figures are known to the department and we will discuss them with COSLA and the local authorities as part of the many discussions that we have with them during the year.

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Over-30-months Scheme

To ask the Scottish Executive when and how it will implement the ending of the over-30-months scheme for cattle. (S2O-494)

Ministers in the United Kingdom Government, the Executive and the other devolved Administrations have not yet reached a final decision on the advice that was put forward in July by the Food Standards Agency concerning changes to the over-30-months scheme. Therefore, the timing of changes to the OTMS is uncertain, but changes are not expected before April 2004. I have made it clear that we should not implement changes until we are sure that we have a robust testing arrangement and a coherent strategy for dealing with any potential market disruption.

I am sure that the minister will appreciate that there is huge demand for the abolition of the over-30-months scheme. Will he give an undertaking that priority will be given in the negotiations to ending the scheme for Highland cattle and other breeds that do not mature until they are well in excess of 30 months?

I am certain that, once we come to a decision, Highland cattle will be included. I am well aware of the problem that has affected breeders of Highland cattle due to the slow maturity of the breed. I am particularly aware of it because I opened a cattle-handling facility in John Farquhar Munro's constituency and was surrounded by 30 of them. I am sure that he did not organise that personally.

I am sure that the minister will agree that the eventual removal of the OTMS is good news for British beef. However, does he agree that, unless a phased approach is taken to the lifting of the ban, the price collapse that would follow would have disastrous consequences for the beef sector, which has shown commendable resilience in recent years?

The member should have listened to my first reply. I said that I am against an immediate release until we have a coherent strategy for dealing with any potential market disruption. We must have that strategy in place before we agree to the arrangements and to changes to the OTMS rules.

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Veterinary Surgeons

To ask the Scottish Executive what steps are being taken to encourage newly-qualified veterinary surgeons to consider working in the rural, farming and crofting environment. (S2O-486)

Ultimately, career decisions are a matter for veterinarians but, as part of their veterinary training, all students continue to receive experience in farm animal practice, which informs their career decisions. I am aware of concerns about the supply of large-animal practitioners in rural areas. We seek to address that through the veterinary profession and by other means.

Is the minister aware that the vast majority of the 495 vets who graduated in the UK last year wished to and do practise in urban and city practices? Is he aware that many rural vets will retire shortly? Given the trends that are developing, we could soon face a shortage of rural and island vets. How will that challenge be overcome? How can the Executive assist in ensuring that more vets opt to work in rural Scotland?

In our discussions with veterinary colleges and others who are involved in animal health, it has become clear that by developing an animal health strategy and therefore elevating the importance of animal health on the farm, the Executive and other agencies are likely to stimulate interest from veterinarians in the likelihood of greater career prospects that relate to their qualifications. I hope that working as close cohorts with veterinary colleges and developing the animal health strategy will go a long way towards making the career more important and more valuable for veterinarians to pursue.

Does the minister agree that it is important that when vet contracts for supervising abattoirs are let, they are dealt with within Scotland to encourage existing practices to keep young vets who have just started? The last round of contract letting, which was orchestrated from London, did the opposite of that.

As Rob Gibson knows, a conflict is involved. Much of the time, people who are involved in the meat industry complain about the high costs of the meat hygiene service. When we exhort the meat hygiene service to reduce costs, the contracts are put out to competitive tendering among veterinarians.

The consequence is that some practices have lost out, but that is not true throughout Scotland. Many Scottish practices succeeded in obtaining contracts. I am bound to say that, in the round, we in Scotland have the competence to do the job. Practices here are capable of competing. However, we must be mindful that, in dealing with the food chain for the meat industry, we have also to contain the costs of the meat hygiene service.

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Higher Education Qualifications (Review)

To ask the Scottish Executive what support is being made available to colleges to facilitate the review of higher national certificate and higher national diploma qualifications. (S2O-490)

The prime responsibility for reviewing higher national qualifications rests with the Scottish Qualifications Authority. The SQA collaborates with colleges and college staff to review and maintain the qualifications and has arrangements in place to remunerate colleges for their expenditure.

I am sure that the Deputy First Minister agrees that the review is important to the sector, to facilitate not only technician-level qualifications, but the two-plus-two model, which we all look forward to seeing rolled out to all universities. The sector is at full capacity. Will a development fund be established to help the sector to make that review professional and to ensure that it has as little impact as possible on the existing programme?

I agree with Marilyn Livingstone about the importance of the review. The Executive and employers view higher national qualifications as a robust centrepiece to prepare students for a wide range and high level of skills.

As I said, responsibility for maintaining and updating the qualification design rules rests with the SQA. Provided that they pursue an agreed programme of work, any costs that colleges incur in connection with the review should be reimbursed by the SQA.

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Concessionary Travel

To ask the Scottish Executive what role transport Scotland will have in the introduction of the national concessionary travel scheme for elderly people and people with disabilities. (S2O-481)

A consultation document on a new approach to transport in Scotland was launched last week, on 17 September. A new agency called transport Scotland is proposed and one of its tasks will be to co-ordinate national concessionary fare schemes.

Does the minister agree that it is unacceptable for senior citizens to be removed from buses part way to their destination because their concessionary passes are not valid across local authority boundaries?

Other countries whose institutions have fewer powers than the Scottish Parliament has have been able to deliver a national concessionary scheme as part of an integrated transport system. Will the minister give assurances to the senior citizens who have written to me that he will not waste time and money on another consultation exercise, but will simply deliver immediately on his pledges to include all forms of transport? In particular, will the scheme include senior citizens in the northern and western isles?

I certainly believe that it is completely unacceptable for an elderly person to be removed from a bus during a journey. I would be happy to take up any example of that, not only with the bus operator concerned, but with the Confederation of Passenger Transport. There are other examples of the existing scheme not working as well as I would like, which I am taking up with the CPT.

The important thing is that we now have free local bus travel for older people, which we want to roll out across Scotland. I am sure that all members welcome that initiative.

The member also asked why we should waste time on consultation. My understanding is that having consultation is one of the founding principles of the Parliament and I want that to continue.

Does the minister agree that, although the national concessionary travel scheme for elderly people and those with disabilities is important, it is also important that we move as quickly as possible to implement the partnership agreement commitment on a national concessionary travel scheme for young people, which was in the Labour party's manifesto? I ask him to indicate what the timetable is for the work that is necessary to make that happen.

I assure the Parliament that I am committed to delivering national, free, concessionary fares schemes for older people, for disabled people and for young people. Those schemes are all a priority.

One of the reasons why I believe that we must have a new organisation—whether it ends up being called transport Scotland or whatever—is that it will allow such national schemes to be delivered and co-ordinated. At the moment, we have 16 different schemes, which are of varying quality. Although they are all far better than what we had before, I want to turn them into a national scheme of which we can all be proud and to do so as soon as possible.

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Social Economy (Regeneration)

To ask the Scottish Executive what steps it is taking to ensure that organisations within the social economy play a key role in community regeneration. (S2O-470)

As I have said, we published "A review of the Scottish Executive's Policies to promote the Social Economy" in January and will publish an action plan shortly. Communities Scotland will play a key role in ensuring that developments in the social economy contribute to a wider process of community regeneration.

I thank the minister for her second reply on the subject. I am sure that she is aware of the social economy's potential to deliver—and its actual delivery of—community regeneration and, in particular, employment opportunities for those in local communities who might be at most disadvantage in the job market. I press her on how she envisages developing the role of Scottish Enterprise and Communities Scotland in helping the growth of social economy organisations.

I take the opportunity to welcome the interest in the social economy that the questions that I have been asked have demonstrated. In my most recent meeting with the voluntary sector forum, I indicated that not only did the Executive have an interest in the field, but the Parliament did, too. Today's question time confirms that.

Johann Lamont makes an important point about what can be achieved by effective work in the social economy. We are considering the detail of that in relation to Communities Scotland, which has a key responsibility. For example, we are examining the wider action moneys that are allocated to Communities Scotland and to housing associations, to ensure that all opportunities to support the social economy are maximised. I will be happy to talk to Jim Wallace about pursuing the issues that relate to Scottish Enterprise.

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Antisocial Neighbours

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it will take to ensure that local authority housing departments protect elderly people who feel threatened by antisocial neighbours. (S2O-469)

The Scottish Executive has taken a number of actions, such as the introduction of the Housing (Scotland) Act 2001, to ensure that the safety and security of elderly people is protected. Of course, we intend to go further, as set out in our consultation paper "Putting our communities first: A Strategy for tackling Anti-social Behaviour".

The minister will be aware from my correspondence with her about the concerns of a Mrs MacDonald at Brechin Road, Arbroath. Mrs MacDonald feels that the local authority is using her area as a place to dump antisocial people. She and her neighbours have already suffered a good deal of abusive behaviour and regularly suffer large groups of youths congregating around individual houses. What action is open to Angus Council under existing legislation to ensure that that threat is removed from the area? What additional action would be possible under the proposed legislation?

Local authorities currently have a number of measures open to them to tackle such things, not only through the responsibilities that housing departments have but, more broadly, through the local authority's corporate strategy. I am happy to meet Alex Johnstone to go through all that, as it would take some time to do so just now. However, let me give the example of probationary tenancies, which were introduced by the 2001 act.

A number of housing issues are being developed. As the member will be aware from the "Putting our communities first" consultation, we are taking a number of wider actions to deal with antisocial behaviour. In all the consultations on how to deal with antisocial behaviour that I have undertaken so far, my key message has been that local authorities must prioritise that activity. They must work corporately together to tackle antisocial behaviour, listen to the victims of such behaviour and take decisive and effective action. Already, a number of measures and resources exist to enable local authorities to do that, and more will come. We have to ensure that victims such as Alex Johnstone's constituent are well protected.

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Children (Crime)

To ask the Scottish Executive how the 0.5 per cent rise in the number of children referred to children's reporters for offences between 1998 and 2001 compared with the rise in crime rates over this period. (S2O-475)

Between 1998 and 2001, total recorded crime and offences recorded by the police fell by 0.2 per cent, from 947,347 to 945,716. Those figures include crimes committed by both adults and children as well as those for which no perpetrator has been identified.

I thank the minister for that good news about the fall in crime rates. Does she agree that, although the 0.5 per cent rise in the number of children referred to the children's reporter over the past three years is disappointing, the situation is certainly not as bad as has been reported in some sections of the media? Does she also agree that the Executive's main priority must be to deal with persistent young offenders?

I am pleased to be able to respond to the member. I know that the figures that he quotes come from the Scottish Children's Reporter Administration parliamentary briefing note that was issued to members recently. If people look at that briefing note, they will see that a large number of young people who are referred—the estimate is around 50 per cent—have committed only one offence. At the same time, a very small proportion of young people cause a disproportionate amount of grief and misery in our local communities. They do themselves, their families and their immediate surroundings no favours at all. We need to be able to divert young people from getting into trouble in the first place and to intervene quickly and effectively when they do. The sanctions for the most persistent offenders have to be appropriate.

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National Health Service Boards (Finance)

To ask the Scottish Executive whether any national health service boards are facing financial crisis. (S2O-508)

No. All health boards must face the task of balancing operational financial pressures with the need to improve services for patients.

The Health Department is working with a small number of boards to ensure that robust financial plans are in place that protect patient services.

So a small number of health boards are facing financial crisis.

Is the minister aware that the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee has warned that millions and millions of pounds of taxpayers' money is being wasted by the Government's failure to ensure that private finance initiative deals offer value for money? The committee said that public bodies' managing of contracts is seriously deficient and that only 50 per cent of contracts have mechanisms to ensure value for money.

Given the fact that Lothian University Hospitals NHS Trust has just incurred a £6 million overspend in the first five months of this year and that it is heading for a £13 million overspend for the year, owing to the costs of the new Royal Bank of Scotland infirmary, will the minister accept that the £31.5 million that will be paid annually to the Royal Bank over the next 25 years represents an undermining of the provision of national health services to the people of the Lothians?

First, Lothian has a budget of £758 million, including a 7.4 per cent increase in this year. Secondly, Lothian has a robust financial plan for the next five years, which it presented at its accountability review, although there has been some slippage over the past few months. Thirdly, that slippage has nothing whatsoever to do with PFI.

Fourthly—I will describe my personal involvement—I have talked to the chair of NHS Lothian, who is committed to managing the slippage in a corporate way, which NHS Lothian has a record of doing across the system. He has assured me that the management of that slippage will not affect patient care. In any case, some of the measures that are being taken require to be taken. I highlight the action taken to reduce the use of agency nursing and I am glad that during the past three weeks, NHS Lothian has made significant progress on that.

The minister will be aware of the accumulated £35 million deficit in NHS Argyll and Clyde. Although that deficit should be set in the context of an annual budget of £555 million, it is essential that we minimise any impact on clinical services. Will he therefore urgently review the period over which the health board must address its deficit?

A five-year financial recovery plan is in place at present and I will certainly keep a close watch on any effect on patient care that results from that recovery plan. We all know the circumstances of NHS Argyll and Clyde and regret that such a financial problem built up. It must be accepted that health boards have to live within their means, especially as record resources are going into the health service. I discussed the matter with the chief executive of NHS Argyll and Clyde last week and he described the plans for the immediate future. Clearly, some options were floated that attracted a lot of publicity. I am glad that those options are not being pursued.

The minister is obviously aware that NHS Argyll and Clyde is facing an overspend of many millions of pounds this year. Given the fact that the board has already closed some facilities, including the maternity unit, the accident and emergency department and the urology unit at the Vale of Leven hospital, and that it has announced plans to remove consultant-led maternity services from the Rankin memorial hospital in Greenock, does he accept that there is a funding crisis in the Argyll and Clyde area? If so, what does he intend to do about it?

It is important to distinguish issues that arise as a result of financial pressures—we all know the factors that arise from that in terms of demography and pay—from service redesign issues, which are separate. The service redesign agenda is driven by quality of care, although there are related issues such as the working time directive, which is a requirement of European law. It is important that we do not mix up those two issues in our discussions.

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Children (Car Accidents)

To ask the Scottish Executive how many children were knocked down by cars in the streets around their schools last year. (S2O-484)

In 2002 a total of 21 child cyclists and 377 child pedestrians were injured on the way to and from school in accidents involving cars.

Is the minister aware that North Lanarkshire Council is the only United Kingdom local authority to have implemented twenty's plenty schemes in all built-up areas throughout the authority? Is he aware that, within 12 months of doing so, an 18 per cent reduction in accidents had been achieved, and that a total outlay of £400,000 had resulted in savings of £7 million for the local authority? Does he agree that North Lanarkshire Council should be congratulated on its policy? Does he have any plans to give it, and any other authority that wants to follow suit, the power to make those 20mph zones mandatory in areas of their own choosing beyond school gates?

With the Presiding Officer's permission, I think that it would be appropriate to refer to the tragic deaths in a road accident earlier this week of Gemma Forbes, aged 10, and Gemma Campbell, aged 9, on the A914 near Cupar. I am certain that all members will want to extend their deepest sympathies to their families.

Of course I congratulate North Lanarkshire Council on its actions. Many other local authorities are taking tough action to improve the safety of people on our roads and on the way to schools. That said, I hope that much more can be done. Our record in Scotland in this regard is poor.

The Executive has a target of reducing by 50 per cent the 1994-98 average figures for the number of serious injuries or deaths among our young children on the roads. We have already made a reduction of almost 40 per cent—38 per cent—some of which is due to the excellent schemes to which Michael McMahon referred.

We must do more. We need to put in place more 20mph zones around our schools and take other safety measures that will encourage our young people to go safely to school by bicycle or on foot. I hope to make announcements in relation to the partnership agreement in that regard very soon.

I call Rosie Kane

I am sorry, Presiding Officer. I am not prepared. Are we still on transport? I wanted to come in on a transport issue.

The question has to be on the subject matter of question 14.

Does the minister agree that traffic does not have to hit someone for it to become a problem? The way forward is to put in place mandatory 20mph zones for all people in our communities. That would remove the intimidation of our communities by traffic. I echo the demand for mandatory speed restrictions. As soon as drivers realise that the restriction is advisory, they start to speed up again.

We have to look at what works. We also have to leave the local authorities some discretion. Some of the non-mandatory schemes have been exceedingly effective. One example is the school that I visited in Ellon, where the introduction of a simple flashing sign to warn car drivers that they were going too fast led to a reduction in the number of accidents outside the school. In the previous three-year period, seven injury accidents had occurred, but in the following three-year period the figure had fallen to zero.

Quite simple low-cost measures can make a big difference. I encourage local authorities to be as innovative as possible in what they do. There is a role for mandatory measures. There is also a need to get speed down outside every school in Scotland.

That ends question time, although I understand that I have a point of order.

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I want to correct something that I said in my response to a supplementary question from Christine May. I mistakenly made a reference to a "free" scheme of concessionary travel for younger people in full-time education and training. The partnership agreement commitment, however, is to introduce a scheme of concessionary travel for young people in full-time education and training. [Interruption.]

Order

Unlike the proposals for older people and disabled people, the scheme for young people would not necessarily be for free travel.

Thank you. I commend the minister for correcting the remark at the earliest possible opportunity.