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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 20 Sep 2001

Meeting date: Thursday, September 20, 2001


Contents


Question Time


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE


Croy Railway Station (Parking)

1. Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab):

To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions have taken place between it, Strathclyde Passenger Transport and ScotRail regarding the provision of parking at Croy railway station for travellers wishing to travel from Croy by train. (S1O-3784)

That is an operational matter for ScotRail and Strathclyde Passenger Transport Executive, but I understand that there are on-going negotiations on the matter.

Cathie Craigie:

I understand the minister's reply. The extension of services from Croy station to Glasgow and Edinburgh has been a great success in encouraging many more people to travel by train, but the station has been a victim of that success because it is unable to provide adequate parking. I have had discussions with those who are involved, but I ask the minister to do all in her power to encourage Strathclyde Passenger Transport Executive and ScotRail to examine long-term solutions and provide adequate parking at the station, which would encourage many more people to use the service.

Sarah Boyack:

I am happy to acknowledge that the member has been trying to persuade the two parties to get moving on this issue. Being able to access directly the Edinburgh and Glasgow services has been a huge benefit to people in the Croy area. As the member said, we now have a car-park problem because so many people are using the station. I am happy to make people aware that there are opportunities under the public transport fund for operators and local authorities to work together to submit partnership bids. However, we will have a while to wait because we have just gone through the round for this year's public transport fund. I hope that the fact that Cathie Craigie has raised the issue and has been pursuing it will lead to a speedy resolution in the next year.

Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP):

I endorse Cathie Craigie's sentiments. I ask the minister whether she will go one stage further and take an active interest by meeting local representatives of all interested bodies and parties. Negotiations between the local landlord and the public agencies that have been referred to have been going on for three years. In the letter I have in my possession just now—

Order. Supplementaries must be brief, according to standing orders. They cannot be statements.

Right. So if I may continue and clear up my point—

No. Can we have the answer, please?

Sarah Boyack:

I accept the member's point that he wishes action to be taken on the issue, as does the whole chamber. It would be highly inappropriate for me to involve myself in land-acquisition negotiations on every railway issue in the country. The key issue is that ScotRail and SPTE work together with the council, as Andrew Wilson suggested.

Brian Fitzpatrick (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab):

As MSP of the next-door constituency and neighbour of Cathie Craigie in the chamber today, I am grateful for her work with ScotRail and SPTE. This morning, I saw evidence at Croy station of people from my constituency parking in Cathie Craigie's car park, so will the minister assist us to maintain fraternal relations by examining how she may use her good offices with ScotRail to improve the frequency of stops at Lenzie and Bishopbriggs, which would reduce our perhaps excessive demands on Cathie Craigie's car park?

Sarah Boyack:

That was a helpful contribution. Access to our railway network is a key issue, on which the public transport fund and discussions on the next franchise come into play, as it was a clear issue in the consultation exercise that we conducted last year. I am happy to reassure Brian Fitzpatrick on that point.


Police (Funding)

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has to fund increased numbers of uniformed police and police support personnel. (S1O-3786)

The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Justice (Mr Jim Wallace):

The numbers of police officers and police force support staff in Scotland have reached record levels. The funding that we have put in place for the police service should be sufficient to sustain those increased levels. However, as Mr Campbell will know, decisions on the deployment of police officers and police support staff are a matter for chief constables.

Colin Campbell:

The minister will understand that I understand that it is chief constables' business to deploy their police. Does the minister agree that there are too few police available when members of the public need them; that communities feel let down when their community police are withdrawn for demonstrations and emergencies; and that police managers have difficulty in matching their human resources to Scotland's needs? Does he agree that a ÂŁ3 million contribution would provide for a further 1,000 police? Will he press for such expenditure?

Mr Wallace:

We should perhaps get the issue into perspective. When I announced the investment of an additional ÂŁ8.9 million for police recruitment in May 2000, the number of police officers stood at 14,699. The latest available figures show an increase over that period of 413 to 15,112. We expect current levels to be sustained as police forces increase their intake of recruits. Support staff numbers have increased over that same period by 184 to 5,340.

I take Mr Campbell's point about visibility. He may be aware that HM chief inspector of constabulary is undertaking a study on the impact of police visibility; public reassurance; the accessibility of policing, given modern technology; and how best to deal with demands. Ultimately, those are matters of deployment for chief constables, but there can be no doubt that the Executive is making resources available to have police numbers at record levels.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con):

Is the Deputy First Minister aware that although extra police have been drafted in for the Scottish Parliament police unit, the Executive pays for only 75 per cent of their cost? As those officers are serving the interest of Scotland as a whole, does he not think that that is unfair and that the matter should be rectified?

Mr Wallace:

I am aware that there is an issue regarding the Parliament's contribution to police funding when the Parliament is in session—obviously the same officers are kept when Parliament is not sitting. That matter is under active discussion between the Scottish Executive and the chief constable of Lothian and Borders police.

Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West):

Does the minister agree that in the campaign against crime it is not just police numbers that are relevant but the size of police forces and the areas that they cover? Will he take this opportunity to reject any suggestion that one police force should cover the whole of Scotland, bearing in mind the good track record of many smaller forces, such as Central Scotland police, in crime detection and community relations?

Yes.

That is the best answer I have ever received in this place.


Scallop Industry

To ask the Scottish Executive what it is doing to alleviate problems in the scallop industry. (S1O-3780)

The Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Rhona Brankin):

The value of scallops landed by United Kingdom vessels in Scotland this year has been as high as it has ever been. The Scottish scallop advisory committee has been set up and has met several times this year. Consultants have been appointed and are working on research into the economic impact of algal toxin closures on shellfish-dependent communities.

Mr McGrigor:

Is the minister aware that the recent proposal from the Food Standards Agency to substitute the action level of 20 micrograms for a trigger level of 4.6 micrograms will make matters much worse for scallop fishermen and growers and could easily result in the closing of the industry? Is she also aware that the other FSA proposal to move from a gonad test to a whole-animal test might easily reduce the scallop fishery to three months a year?

Rhona Brankin:

I am aware of those concerns within the industry. Next week, I will meet the Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care and officials from the FSA to discuss the implications of the moves to which Jamie McGrigor refers. However, I am sure that Jamie McGrigor will agree that protection of the public must be a key consideration.

John Farquhar Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD):

A recent written answer to Tavish Scott from the minister confirmed that in the past five years there had been no outbreaks of food poisoning caused by scallops. Why has the inshore scallop sector, which is probably the most environmentally friendly commercial marine activity, had more draconian rules applied to it? Will the minister now consider relaxing the rules on processing so that live scallops can be marketed?

I reiterate that protection of public health is a key consideration that underpins every decision that we take about the scallop industry and some of the problems that it has been facing recently.


Cities Review

To ask the Scottish Executive whether its review of cities will take into account the effects of the council tax system on low-paid and pensioner citizens of Glasgow. (S1O-3815)

The review's terms of reference are deliberately broad and those who participate will be able to contribute evidence on issues as they see fit.

Every objective observer agrees that the council tax system is extremely unfair and regressive. It hammers the pensioners and the low paid of Scotland while pampering the well paid and MSPs such as the minister.

Mr Sheridan, we must have a question.

Will the minister guarantee that he believes that the council tax system must be re-examined so that we can have a fairer system of local taxation?

Peter Peacock:

As I said, the cities review is an open process. If Mr Sheridan or anyone else wishes to raise those points in that context, they are free to do so, although it is not immediately apparent why council tax is a cities issue per se, because it applies to the whole of Scotland. Mr Sheridan is probably aware that the Local Government Committee is conducting a thorough investigation into local government finance. The Executive has pledged to examine the outcome of that inquiry closely.

Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab):

Will the minister acknowledge the significant burden that is carried by Glasgow's council tax payers? That is a council tax issue that relates to cities. Glasgow's council tax payers have that burden because of Glasgow's wider responsibility to the west of Scotland and to Scotland as a whole. Does the minister acknowledge that in giving a commitment on the cities review, it is important that he considers that broader role? My constituents have told me that they feel that they carry a burden because of Glasgow's broader role in the west of Scotland and other places. Will the minister commit the cities review to considering that matter seriously?

Peter Peacock:

Johann Lamont has made that point several times and I am glad that she has done so again. That is the sort of issue that will be considered in the cities review. That is not a feature of Glasgow only, although Glasgow has a particular responsibility for its art galleries, which are considered a national resource. Other cities, such as Dundee, Aberdeen and Edinburgh, have similar problems. All those matters are open for discussion. We encourage people to raise those issues with us.

Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):

Will the minister facilitate the cities review's consideration of communities situated around a city such as Glasgow—in Lanarkshire, say—which suffer from some of the evils that cause problems in the cities? Will the review go beyond the boundaries of the cities?

Yes. It is well understood that cities interact with the regions around them. The city-region relationship is a crucial element of the review. We want to understand more fully how that works and tackle the issues that it raises.

Can we be assured that the review will take into account the interests of people in areas such as Invergowrie, Birkhill and Monifeith?

Peter Peacock:

I have no doubt that the review will take into account the interests of the citizens in those areas, just as it will the interests of those around cities elsewhere in Scotland, because those areas are part of the interaction. How the work will emerge remains to be seen, but I encourage people with views to give us them.


Autism

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress it is making in improving services for adults with autism. (S1O-3793)

The Scottish Executive provided additional resources of ÂŁ36 million over three years from April 2001 to improve services for people with learning disabilities, including services for adults with autism.

Mr Macintosh:

I am aware of Mr Chisholm's personal commitment to improving such services. He will know that support for adults with autism and Asperger's is scarce. Is he aware of the good work that is being conducted by agencies such as the Prospects employment agency in Glasgow to help adults with autism and Asperger's into employment? Building on that work will go some way towards reassuring parents of children with autism that services will be available to support their children when they grow beyond school age.

Malcolm Chisholm:

Several agencies are doing excellent work. The Scottish Society for Autism and the Public Health Institute of Scotland are doing important pieces of work to examine services for adults with autistic spectrum disorder. When those reports are published soon, we will provide funding for a national network for people with autistic spectrum disorder. That was a recommendation of the learning disability review.

More generally, we are considering all the partnership in practice agreements from local agencies throughout Scotland to find out how they address the recommendations of the learning disability review, including how their services for autism do that. Many areas have good strategies, but some do not and we will provide feedback to those.


Drugs (Methadone Programmes)

To ask the Scottish Executive how many people in Scotland are currently registered on methadone programmes for drug users. (S1O-3790)

The Deputy Minister for Justice (Iain Gray):

Patients do not require to be registered before receiving methadone treatment. However, the Scottish drug misuse database provides a profile of new problem drug users seen by services. For the year ended March 2001, 2,307 of those were reported to be using prescribed methadone.

Mary Scanlon:

Given that it was confirmed in a written answer that methadone is more addictive than heroin, will the minister offer methadone users alternatives such as residential detox, rehabilitation and support measures that focus more directly on patient care?

Iain Gray:

It is interesting to note that methadone treatment is one of the few treatments about which we have proper research evidence. The research shows how beneficial that treatment is in stabilising people's lives and allowing them to contemplate the possibility of rehabilitation. Over recent years, methadone treatment has benefited many thousands of people and it continues to do so. Different treatments will work for different people who are drug-dependent at different times of their lives. We are in favour of providing a range of treatments. As Mary Scanlon said, that means that an individual can find the support that they need. For the first time ever, because of our current investment and the expansion of drug treatment services, that aspiration has some likelihood of becoming a reality. I expect to see it happen over the next couple of years.

Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):

Will the minister comment on the success of methadone programmes, including the programme that is run in Coatbridge, Lanarkshire? That programme supports users and the wider society. Will he comment on how more general practitioners can be persuaded to sign up to offer methadone programmes?

Iain Gray:

In recent years, progress has been made to get GPs to participate in methadone-prescribing programmes. In Lanarkshire, the percentage of GPs who are involved in such programmes has risen from somewhere in the low 20 per cents to nearer 80 per cent, but even in Lanarkshire there are gaps. We are working hard to ensure that training is available for GPs, so that they feel confident about getting involved in such programmes. We believe that the best way of delivering methadone treatment is through shared-care arrangements, with GPs at the heart. Who is better placed than GPs to ensure the full and proper management of the health needs of the drug user, including substitute prescribing? We will encourage and invest in that to ensure an expansion of those services.


Health Care Professionals (Rural Areas)

To ask the Scottish Executive what steps it is taking to improve the supply of health care professionals in rural areas. (S1O-3805)

The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon):

The health department is working closely with NHS Scotland to ensure that the needs of rural Scotland are addressed effectively. Recruitment and retention of staff is a central element of that work. A range of specific measures is in place and further proposals are being developed currently by a working group of the remote and rural areas initiative.

Mr Stone:

The minister will be aware, from correspondence from me, of the difficulties regarding GP cover in the Brora and Helmsdale area of Sutherland. A fairly bitter local situation has resulted. I ask the minister for an assurance that she will examine the situation and suggest remedies. The particular issues of distance and geography affect the supply of GP services in rural areas.

Susan Deacon:

I am aware of the particular local issue to which Jamie Stone refers, as I am aware of similar situations in other parts of the country. One of the distinctive challenges that we face is to address the needs of rural Scotland. That challenge necessitates our finding effective solutions such as additional investment and the development of personal medical services projects that offer GPs, dentists and others in the NHS alternative contractual options. An investment of close to ÂŁ8.5 million has been made in PMS. We are creating the conditions for local health systems to find the right way of delivering services in our local areas. I am impressed by the many innovative ways in which health services are already delivered in rural Scotland. I hope that we can build on that good practice.

Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):

With regard to single GP practices, I ask the minister to go a step further and recognise the example of Dalmally in Argyll, where a single GP practice was filled only by taking a doctor from Caithness. Rather than have one area of Scotland competing against another, will the minister commit to a review of the funding mechanisms for single GP practices throughout Scotland?

Susan Deacon:

It is worth noting that a considerable piece of work has already been undertaken in this area by the Health and Community Care Committee. Indeed, it continues to be an area of discussion between the Executive and GPs. It is wrong to oversimplify the issues. Many issues need to be considered to do with how we develop the health service in general and rural health services in particular, so that as far as possible we can maintain local access to services, while maintaining standards and providing appropriate conditions and working arrangements for health care professions. There is no simple or quick fix and no one-size-fits-all solution for every part of the country, but I assure members who have an interest in this area that it continues to be a priority area for me and the health department.

Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):

Given the wide-ranging work load of rural GPs, including work within community hospitals, will the Executive suggest to the relevant education bodies that specific training for undergraduates in the work load of rural GPs would be useful in improving standards and ultimately recruitment into rural areas?

Susan Deacon:

Over the summer, I visited many parts of rural Scotland, including Shetland, Dumfries and Galloway, and Grampian. One of the recurrent themes in discussion was the need for us to consider education and training as a whole and how that will play a part in the recruitment and retention of GPs and other health professionals in rural areas in future. I am pleased to assure Margaret Smith that the work that is being undertaken by the remote and rural areas initiative is specifically considering that matter, along with other measures that will address recruitment and retention in rural Scotland.

Question 8 has been withdrawn.


Rural Development (Schools)

To ask the Scottish Executive what role the Minister for Environment and Rural Development foresees for rural schools in relation to rural development. (S1O-3778)

The Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Ross Finnie):

I recognise the role that local schools can play in rural communities. I would therefore expect the availability of school facilities to be a key consideration for local authorities, other bodies and communities in taking forward their local rural development proposals.

David Mundell:

I thank the minister for that positive response. Is he aware that consultants acting on behalf of Dumfries and Galloway Council have come forward with proposals that could lead to the closure of more than 40 rural primary schools in Dumfries and Galloway? Will the minister join me in urging the council not to take the decision in relation to the future of those schools in isolation and to take into account the important factors that he has set out in his reply?

Ross Finnie:

I am well aware of the suggestions of the consultants who reported in Dumfries and Galloway. Like all local authorities, Dumfries and Galloway Council is under a statutory duty to make adequate and efficient provision of school education throughout its area; it is bound to take that into account. If any of the suggestions in the consultants' report become proposals, the authority will have a statutory duty to consult parents and school boards. Should that happen, further consultation would be required.

If the closure of any school meant that the nearest primary school was 5 miles away and the nearest secondary school 10 miles away, it would involve the approval of my friend the Minister for Education, Europe and External Affairs. There are ample opportunities to ensure that the member's council discharges its statutory obligations effectively, before any decision is arrived at.

Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):

I have had representations from Argyll and Ross-shire, where small rural communities feel that their schools are under threat because—ironically—local authorities now have more money for new school build and are considering building larger, replacement schools to serve a wider catchment area. Does the minister know whether there are any plans to issue guidelines to local authorities regarding the social impact of school closures on rural communities and the impact on such communities when, as seems to happen, their schools are under threat of closure every few years?

Ross Finnie:

The Convention of Scottish Local Authorities is currently undertaking work to prepare a draft code of practice on school closures. We expect COSLA to take into account all the aspects that pose a threat to rural schools, which Maureen Macmillan has properly outlined. However, it would be improper for me, or for anyone else, to anticipate the outcome of that work.


Public Transport

To ask the Scottish Executive what steps are being taken, in light of the Learn to Let Go project, to ensure that the public transport system meets the needs of women. (S1O-3806)

The Minister for Transport and Planning (Sarah Boyack):

We plan to publish, by the end of this year, guidance that will include a checklist of issues relating to gender. It will be for the use of central Government, local authorities and transport operators in designing and implementing policies, programmes and services.

Mr Kerr:

Will the minister give members more detailed advice about examples of poor practice that currently exist and explain how her initiatives will ensure that women travel more often on public transport? I assume that the targets that she has set herself will have measurable outcomes.

Sarah Boyack:

The key issue that we want to put across with the guidelines is the fact that many transport operators have not considered the needs of women at all. The research that we have carried out shows that women are concerned about safety and comfort and about physical access. Better lighting, safe car parking, low-floor buses, lifts and ramps, and better storage space for buggies and luggage are the kind of practical improvements that we want operators to work with us to deliver. I hope that the guidelines will raise awareness and will put those issues firmly on the agenda of transport operators.

I know that we live in an egalitarian age, but would the minister consider it a useful, practical application of the project to encourage more men to let go of their seats in favour of women? [Laughter.]

Yes.


Health at Work

To ask the Scottish Executive what steps are being taken to improve health at work in line with the aims of Scotland's health-at-work week. (S1O-3773)

The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon):

The Scottish health plan included a commitment to invest in the success of Scotland's health-at-work scheme by increasing funding to enable more employers to develop health-promoting workplaces. The Executive has already announced additional funding of ÂŁ6 million over the next three years to enhance occupational health services in workplaces, particularly in small and medium-sized enterprises, and to help implement "Towards a Safer, Healthier Workplace", the occupational health and safety strategy for NHS Scotland.

Dr Simpson:

This morning, we had a debate about the extent of private sector involvement in health. Does the minister agree that we need to build on community planning for health by involving private employers in health promotion and provision at work? Does she agree that, at this time, employers could join us in promoting flu vaccination for those under the age of 65 who are at risk?

Susan Deacon:

I strongly agree with Richard Simpson that employers have a key role to play in promoting the health of employees. I am delighted that the Scottish Executive is working in close partnership with the Confederation of British Industry Scotland and the Scottish Trades Union Congress to ensure that workplaces are healthier environments and that health promotion is increased. Although we have just moved out of Scotland's health-at-work week, it is worth paying tribute to Scotland's health-at-work scheme, which now covers 650 workplaces and involves around half a million employees. That gives some indication of what can be achieved when we put our minds to it and I am certainly determined to develop that work.

Has the minister thought of collaborating with her colleague, the Minister for Transport and Planning, to help businesses to prepare green transport plans to encourage people to walk and cycle to work?

Susan Deacon:

The Minister for Transport and Planning and I collaborate regularly on the many areas of mutual interest where health-promoting activities can take place in relation to transport policies. The Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning and I have also been collaborating on the issue, as we want to work jointly with Scottish employers to develop their role in health promotion so that we can continue to improve Scotland's health record.


Water and Sewerage Industry

To ask the Scottish Executive what discussions have been held with Her Majesty's Government regarding the impact of the Competition Act 1998 on the future structure of Scotland's water and sewerage industry. (S1O-3812)

There have been no such specific discussions, because questions on the structure of the Scottish water and sewerage industry, and how it should develop in a more competitive environment, are matters for the Scottish Parliament.

Mr McAllion:

The minister's predecessor, Sam Galbraith, once described the proposal to exempt Scotland's water and sewerage industry from the terms of the Competition Act 1998 as

"very difficult, if not impossible".—[Official Report, Transport and the Environment Committee, 19 December 2000; c 1407.]

Regardless of the technicalities of that act, does the minister agree that if the Executive, backed by a majority in the Parliament and the majority of the Scottish people, decided to exclude private sector competition from the water and sewerage industry, no one would be so lacking in political sense as to dare to use UK legislation to overturn a democratic decision of the Parliament and the Scottish people?

Ross Finnie:

If that was the democratic will of the Parliament, that would be the democratic decision. However, I hope that, before arriving at such a decision, there would be full discussion of the serious issues that are involved. We could have an interesting debate on whether denying the pressures of competition to a publicly owned water industry would be in the long-term interests of the consumers—the people whom we are here to represent. However, the answer to the theoretical question of whether the democratic will of the Parliament would be accepted is that it would.

How can the minister reconcile his pledge to open the water industry to the private sector with his and the Government's commitment to prevent water privatisation?

Ross Finnie:

I am not sure that I have ever pledged to open up the water industry. I have pledged to create a publicly owned water company. The Executive believes that the industry must be able to compete to achieve long-term sustainability. We also believe that it is legally not sustainable to invoke the exemptions under the Competition Act 1998. If we create a publicly owned water services industry that is able to compete successfully, those two positions can easily be squared.


Women's Offending

To ask the Scottish Executive when it will publish details on the progress being made by the ministerial group on women's offending, particularly in relation to the proposal to set up time out centres. (S1O-3809)

A report on the work of the ministerial group on women's offending, including the time out proposal, will be published shortly after the group completes its work in December.

Pauline McNeill:

The former governor of Cornton Vale prison, among others, has made statements to the effect that there are too many poor, vulnerable women with deteriorating health who are not served by the justice system. Does the minister agree that radical and urgent action is required to reduce the number of women whom we hold in custody and that the development of time out centres could provide an alternative to custody and a more effective way of dealing with women's offending?

Iain Gray:

That is the purpose of the time out proposal developed by the ministerial group. What is proposed is a centre that provides a safe environment for women who are serving community sentences, so that there is a greater chance of compliance with those sentences and a greater degree of confidence from sentencers in conferring community service sentences on women. There are many women for whom Cornton Vale is not the most appropriate sanction.

Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):

Does the minister agree that consistency in sentencing is all-important to the image of our judicial process? Does he agree that the sentences that are imposed by the courts should be the measure of the nature of the crime, irrespective of the offender's sex? Is that not in line with the requirements of equality under the European convention on human rights?

Iain Gray:

Phil Gallie is absolutely right. The fact that some 50 per cent of the women who pass through Cornton Vale in a year are there as a result of defaulting on fines for crimes for which custody is not the consistent and accepted sanction is the reason that more alternatives must be provided. Those women are currently being placed inappropriately, according to the logic that Phil Gallie espouses.

Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab):

Cornton Vale prison is in my constituency and I am well aware of the problems that Pauline McNeill has outlined. Will the minister assure us that, following Clive Fairweather's assertion that we desperately need to consider alternative strategies, he will consider a pilot scheme to bring in an approach based on halfway houses, as in north America?

Iain Gray:

There is some difference between what is often referred to as a halfway house and what, in my previous answers, I have called a time out centre. Time out centres support a community sentence, whereas halfway houses are more often seen as prisons in the community. The proposal that we developed is the one that the ministerial group felt had the greatest likelihood of having the biggest impact on numbers in Cornton Vale. I have put my clout, such as it is, behind the ministerial group by chairing it and pressing for the proposal to move forward. I hope that, some time next year, the proposal will turn into a reality and that, soon after that, it will have an impact on numbers in the prison.


Health Service (Dental Therapists)

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress has been made in its discussions with Her Majesty's Government on possible modifications to the role of enrolled dental therapists in the health service. (S1O-3791)

The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon):

The duties of dental therapists are regulated by the Dental Auxiliaries (Amendment) Regulations 1996 (SI 1996/2998). Those regulations are a reserved matter. The Executive is in regular contact with the UK Government on a range of issues, including the regulations.

Mrs Smith:

I hope that the minister will agree that, given Scotland's poor dental health record, any change to allow the wider provision of dental services, including the use of enrolled dental therapists in general practice in Scotland to bring the country into line with England and Wales, should be welcome. Would she further agree that, if enrolled dental therapists were able to work in general practice, we would have to ensure that work in the community, particularly work with children, was not adversely affected?

Susan Deacon:

Margaret Smith will be aware of the commitment that the Executive has to ensuring that children's health services, including dentistry, are developed as effectively as possible. We are aware of the discussions on this. The regulation of this profession, as with other health professional groups, is a reserved matter, as we maintain a UK framework for the professions. We are mindful of the issues and I can assure Margaret Smith that, within our powers, we are continuing to invest in and develop professions complementary to dentistry, including therapists and hygienists, to ensure that we have in place the work force that we need, now and in future.

John Scott (Ayr) (Con):

Is the minister aware that it takes between 18 months and two years—that is, between 78 and 104 weeks—to get an orthodontic appointment at Ayr hospital? Does she agree that that situation is totally unsatisfactory? Is there anything that she can do about the fact that there have been problems with orthodontistry in Ayr for some time?

Susan Deacon:

I agree that the example that the member cites is unacceptable, but I hope that he will agree that it is not typical. There are huge variations across the country and we have made it clear that in orthodontistry, as well as in other aspects of NHS care, we wish there to be greater equity across the country and we want the extremes of waiting times to be reduced. We are working jointly with the dental profession on the best way of doing that, which is to invest in the service to find different ways of developing teams of staff to provide dental care. That way we can maintain NHS dentistry, rather than, as the Conservatives did in this morning's debate, simply looking to the private sector as a solution.


Housebreaking

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress it is making in tackling housebreaking. (S1O-3781)

The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Justice (Mr Jim Wallace):

Housebreaking in Scotland fell by 10 per cent between 1999 and 2000. In order to ensure that progress in the reduction of housebreaking is sustained, in May of this year I agreed with chief constables that Scottish forces should work to a target of reducing housebreaking by a further 10 per cent by the year 200304. It is for chief constables to make the operational decisions necessary to achieve that target.

Elaine Thomson:

Is the minister aware of the recent success of Grampian police in reducing housebreaking by 40 per cent in my constituency, through the introduction of an innovative repeat victimisation strategy? Will he join me in congratulating Grampian police on their success? Will he consider whether the strategy would be of value to other Scottish communities?

Mr Wallace:

I am aware of that considerable success in reducing housebreaking by up to 40 per cent. I join Elaine Thomson in congratulating Grampian police, who have attributed much of their success to partnership working with the local community and various agencies.

As Elaine Thomson indicated, the repeat victimisation strategy has been an important part of tackling housebreaking in her constituency. A conference was organised by the then Scottish Office and the Scottish Police College in 1998 to learn lessons about repeat victimisation. A conference report and a research report on repeat victimisation in Scotland were published last year. Good practice guides have been issued to the Scottish constabularies. In addition, there has been a series of presentations to senior officers in the Scottish police forces. Such dissemination of good practice is clearly bearing fruit in Aberdeen. I am sure that that is a model for other parts of Scotland to follow.