Official Report 928KB pdf
The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-15156, in the name of Alex Cole-Hamilton, on protecting communities from antisocial behaviour and antisocial driving. The debate will be concluded without any question being put.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament notes with concern that many communities in Scotland, including those in the Edinburgh Western constituency such as South Queensferry, have been affected by antisocial behaviour and antisocial driving; understands that this kind of behaviour can have an impact on quality of life, businesses and community spaces; notes with concern the findings of the report, Still living a nightmare: Understanding the experiences of victims of anti-social behaviour, which has been published by Baroness Newlove and highlights the severe impact of unresolved antisocial behaviour on victims across the UK, including significant mental health issues; acknowledges and notes praise for the Silent Crime campaign for its work in raising awareness of what it believes are these often overlooked issues; recognises the hard work undertaken by Police Scotland and local authorities to tackle this behaviour, particularly around antisocial driving, and notes calls for the Scottish Government to create a national taskforce, which can examine and identify targeted measures to address this behaviour, including whether legislation can be tightened.
17:07
I thank all those members who are present for the debate, and all those who have signed the motion. In addition, I thank various national media outlets for their abundant interest in this story, which was—I think—sparked by the question that I asked of John Swinney at First Minister’s question time some weeks ago. I am also grateful to him for his offer of a meeting, which will take place tomorrow; I will say a bit more about that in my remarks.
Before I get into the substance of the motion, I pay tribute to my constituents in the beautiful town of South Queensferry. It is a town that needs no introduction—it is an iconic United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization world heritage site in the shadow of the three bridges that cross the Forth estuary. However, that community has been blighted, and those resilient and welcoming people are having their lives blighted, too.
I make it clear from the outset that this is not an assault or an attack on young people or on motor enthusiasts, many of whom will go about their pastimes in a law-abiding way. I think back to when I was 16; my best friend was something of a petrolhead and owned a Honda 50cc. We would tinker around with it in his garage and use it to ride around the fields behind his house. The fastest that we could get it to go was about 30mph—I still have the scar tissue from the falls that I took, and the parental rebuke is still ringing in my ears.
I understand, therefore, the thrill of acceleration and the draw of any type of engine. However, there is a massive difference between having an interest in cars or bikes, and what is currently going on in many parts of Scotland, nowhere more so than in the town of South Queensferry in my constituency.
For four years, my constituents have had their quality of life destroyed by hundreds of high-performance cars and motorbikes, some of which have been illegally modified, racing around their beautiful town. The drivers of those vehicles will congregate from all parts of Scotland, and some will even abuse, intimidate and harass anyone who dares to approach them to complain. That is happening in the car park at the foot of the iconic Forth bridge—a UNESCO world heritage site.
The drivers will often gather and honk their horns throughout the night to assert their presence. They will perform wheel spins in a stationary position, until the whole area is drenched in acrid tyre smoke, before racing off on a circuit that takes in most of the town. The doctored braking systems and exhausts mean that everyone can hear the machine-gun effect of the backfires all over town. Pets have been killed, and hotels have lost trade because their customers cannot sleep—in fact, nobody is getting any sleep.
In September, I chaired a packed town-hall meeting in Queensferry, where I brought together high-ranking officials from the council, other elected representatives and the new chief inspector of police in Edinburgh’s north-west locality. I am very grateful for their continued interest and activity around the issue. Most importantly, we gathered together to hear about the lived experience of my constituents.
I say that the meeting was packed—it was absolutely rammed. It was standing room only, and people who arrived slightly late had to turn away because they could not get into the building. These people are practically on their knees from the exhaustion and misery that has been caused by this antisocial racing, which is why I chose to raise the issue with the First Minister in the chamber the very next day.
I am glad that, since attention has been brought to the issue in South Queensferry, the problem has abated for some time, but there are signs that it is picking up again, so we need solutions. One such solution, which I am calling on the Government to adopt, feels like an easy win.
Unlike councils in England, Scottish local authorities do not have the power to install and operate speed cameras in their areas; that is currently the preserve of the police. The Scottish Parliament could, with some speed, change the law to allow councils to have that power. At a stroke, that would allow the City of Edinburgh Council to install cameras along the length of the Queensferry racing circuit. Not only would the fines that would be accrued from the cameras pay for their installation and upkeep; those cameras would generate additional revenue that could be invested in additional road-safety measures.
We also need a dedicated, named police operation in South Queensferry. I was reflecting earlier on the success of operation Soteria, which—perhaps eight years ago now—successfully curtailed illegal motorbike racing in the north-west of Edinburgh, in particular around Muirhouse and Drylaw. The operation addressed that racing by bringing together, through the stronger north initiative that existed at the time, interested stakeholders such as youth work professionals, elected members and community councillors, until we had created a fabric of intervention that completely addressed the issue.
That operation may have been a success at the time, but surely the member must admit that the antisocial driving of off-road bikes is still prevalent across the city, which is causing a lot of distress.
I am grateful to Sue Webber for her poignant intervention; I was coming on to reflect on the fact that, while operation Soteria dispersed that illegal off-road biking in the north-west locality, it has simply displaced it to other parts of the city. It is still a problem, but that simply encapsulates why we need stakeholders such as youth work providers to come to the table, and why we need to invest in youth work, so that we can address the problem more fully.
I see that there is an intervention coming from Bob Doris, so I will take it.
In my contribution, I will say more about off-road vehicles in Glasgow, in particular in Maryhill and Springburn. However, I have a question now for Mr Cole-Hamilton. Is he thinking about enforcement not just under existing powers, but possibly under United Kingdom-wide provisions on the registration of off-road vehicles, and about whether further offences could be created at a UK level, rather than just enforcement at a Scottish level?
I can give you the time back, Mr Cole-Hamilton.
I am grateful to Bob Doris for his intervention—he speaks to a helpful solution, or at least a suggestion, that could be fed into a national task force. I have, in the chamber, asked John Swinney to consider convening such a task force, because we need that type of cross-party effort, and those insights and suggestions to come forward, if we are truly to tackle this scourge. It is a scourge, and it is not only blighting my own constituency but—as I know—affecting many other parts of Scotland. This behaviour is happening in towns across Scotland, where people are reporting similar issues.
A recent report by Baroness Newlove, “Still living a nightmare: Understanding the experiences of victims of anti-social behaviour”, highlighted the devastating impact that such antisocial behaviour can have on the health of the individuals whom it most affects—the people who have to live beside it—and on their mental wellbeing and everyday lives.
Some victims have reported feeling desperation, and even “suicidal” thoughts. The report says that victims “face barriers” when trying to get help from authorities. Indeed, only 29 per cent of victims said that they were provided with any assistance whatsoever.
Baroness Newlove’s report sets out clear recommendations, including mandatory training for police to enable them to better identify high-risk cases,
“a single point of contact”
for streamlined support, and better collaboration.
I pay tribute to the efforts of the police in my locality, because they do their best to respond to the neighbours. Often, however, when they approach antisocial drivers, those drivers are on their best behaviour and are trying not to exhibit, in any way, behaviour that would involve any kind of offence that can be actioned. We need, therefore, to be proactive and preventative in dealing with the situation.
Before I finish, I want to recognise that the hard work of the police and of local authorities in tackling such behaviour, in particular antisocial driving, is on-going. This behaviour is not happening in isolation—I was not the first person to identify it, and it would be wrong to suggest otherwise. I also applaud the silent crime campaign for its work in raising awareness of these issues.
Nevertheless, it is clear that we need to change our approach if we are to win the battle. That starts with cross-party work and a national task force, and with preventative solutions, some of which we will—I hope—hear about tonight.
We move to the open debate.
17:16
I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for bringing the debate to the chamber. As he said, we have all, to some extent, experienced the issue in our constituencies across Scotland.
I attended two remembrance Sunday events this weekend just past. The first was in my home town of Wishaw, in Belhaven park, which is a large park that is not open to vehicles. During the ceremony, we could hear the revving noise of a two-stroke engine, and three bikes appeared in the streets around us. It seemed that it was deliberate, because they had spotted the parade and the gathering. It is not a big parade in Wishaw—there is a bigger ceremony in Motherwell—but there were, nonetheless, about 40-odd people there. It is the only ceremony that recognises the Lanarkshire Yeomanry at their memorial. The bikes went through the park and the noise was horrendous—it disturbed the whole ceremony. It brought home to me that there is simply no recognition of the damage and hurt that is caused, and the impact that such behaviour has on people.
Having spoken to the police, and from knowing police officers who have been trained in the pursuit of quad bikes, I know that they have strict limitations on the nature of pursuit. It is frustrating to them that, although they are highly trained, they are limited by the guidance and the rules regarding what they can do in dealing with the matter.
Alex Cole-Hamilton will know, given that I am convener of the cross-party group on accident prevention and safety awareness, how strongly I feel about the safety issues around the matter. Those include the inappropriate storage of bikes: we have bikes stored in flats and communal areas, and petrol bikes and gasoline are stored inappropriately.
In addition to all those issues, there is now the issue of electric bikes and scooters, too, which are often used in the same way. They have rechargeable batteries, and we know about the fire hazards that are associated with those, especially when they are purchased not from reputable places, but from online resellers. That is increasing the risk of fire in a lot of communities.
I would like to see strong work done on education, in particular for young drivers. In addition, we know that black-box technology is now available, as we look towards what might be done to limit some of the dangers around road safety, which we know is getting worse. I believe that, since Covid, when people did not drive for a long time, they have forgotten how to do so, and driver behaviour on our roads has changed. We need to do everything that we can, and I would like to see the use of technology both in cars and—as Mr Cole-Hamilton said—in pursuing and catching people using cameras.
We have all experienced this behaviour. I have visited a couple of really good sites in the countryside—one in South Lanarkshire and one in Midlothian—that have been developed for quad bike use. Young people are trained in the sport and in how to use the equipment responsibly. That includes everyone wearing helmets, which is a real area of concern for me, given the number of vehicles that I see that are driven by people wearing no protective clothing or helmets.
I am interested in hearing more about a task force and how it might be developed. I say to Mr Cole-Hamilton that, if he is interested in engaging with the cross-party group on accident prevention and safety awareness, he would be welcome to discuss the issue at a future meeting.
17:21
I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for bringing a debate on this important topic to the chamber.
The motion highlights the devastating impact of antisocial behaviour in one small part of Scotland, but—as we all know—it is anything but a local matter. There is not a member in the chamber who does not hear regularly from their constituents about just how disruptive, and how utterly miserable an experience for them, antisocial behaviour is.
It is apt that we are having the debate the week after yet more shameful scenes unfolded across the country in relation to fireworks disorder. Every year, the police and other emergency services know that the problems of bonfire night are coming and, every year, they appear to be powerless to do anything about it. While those brave men and women risk their lives on the front line, people are too scared to leave their own homes and are terrified for the wellbeing of their children and pets. It is a grim existence for far too many, and it falls to the decision makers in Parliament to do something about it.
First, let us consider the first line of defence: Scotland’s front-line policemen and policewomen. In recent years, their resources have been stripped to the bone. In terms of feet on the ground, the numbers are at their lowest since the Scottish National Party came to power, which is an astonishing abandonment of the hard-fought commitment back in 2007 to put 1,000 extra officers on our streets.
Those front-line staff are also constantly let down when it comes to equipment. Body-worn cameras have still not been rolled out—that pledge is now years behind schedule. They wonder—rightly—why train workers and supermarket staff can get body cams, but they cannot. There are other challenges, too, from ludicrous demands being placed on their time to high levels of sickness absence. With the latest round of pay negotiations, it is no wonder they are at their wits’ end.
What happens when the police are able to apprehend, arrest and charge the perpetrators of antisocial behaviour? They are met by a justice system that is too weak and which offers little in the way of a deterrent. Criminals know that they can commit repeated offences and be back out in no time, to engage in similar behaviour. There is no fear of, or respect for, the law.
A significant proportion of antisocial behaviour is committed by young people, yet the Scottish Government does not think that those under 25 should be held properly to account for their actions. Sentencing guidelines mean that they are handled with kid gloves, because ministers do not believe that their brains have fully developed. However, communities know that if someone is old enough to wreck lives, ruin communities and put lives at risk without remorse, they are old enough to feel the consequences.
Mr Cole-Hamilton’s motion talks about
“whether legislation can be tightened”
to deal with all this. To begin with, one suggestion would be to review the free bus pass scheme for those under 22. Anyone who has used a bus anywhere in the country knows exactly how successful that policy has been, but it has successfully enabled troublemakers to terrorise drivers and passengers and travel from one place to another—on the taxpayer—with the sole motive of violence. At the very least, the pass should be instantly revoked for anyone who is found to be stirring trouble on board or travelling with bad intentions.
So many of the problems on Scotland’s streets can be traced back to a justice system that is not taken seriously by the very people in whom it is meant to spark fear. Whether that is down to resourcing, political dogma or basic incompetence, something needs to change. Our communities need that now, more than ever.
17:25
I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for bringing the debate to the chamber, because it is important. The behaviour that it addresses is part of a pattern of which I think we are all aware.
Before I go on, however, I should probably make something of a confession. As with many things in my life, I can be quite contrarian. Although I love riding my bike to and from Parliament, I am also a bit of a car guy. I have something that might be described as a bit of a midlife-crisis car, and I very much enjoy driving it.
I notice that Jackie Baillie is smiling intently. I will not tell members how she has described my car, because the language is distinctly unparliamentary.
Nonetheless, I like working on my car. I have upgraded the suspension on it, and I have even changed the exhaust, but that is actually to make it quieter rather than louder—[Laughter.] That is a fact.
The point is that car culture is important to me, as it is to an increasing group of people. Indeed, I do not just work on my car—I watch a lot of YouTube clips, and I think that it is good for people to get together to share their enjoyment. However, that does not mean that they can do so in a way that disrupts local communities, causes distress, impacts local businesses and—most importantly—breaks traffic laws.
It is important that we talk about this issue but, as ever when we talk about antisocial behaviour, it is important that we do so proportionately and in a considered way. It is true that such behaviour can cause misery to local populations, but I think that it is part of a wider pattern of issues. There is no doubt in my mind that, whether it is to do with the economy or the consequences of lockdown, we are seeing an increase in antisocial behaviour. That ranges from the traffic incidents that Alex Cole-Hamilton has brought to the chamber, and violence against retail workers, to the alarming events that we have seen most recently regarding fireworks.
Does Daniel Johnson agree that it is important that we do not conflate some of this antisocial behaviour with other aspects of problematic behaviour in young people? In South Queensferry, which is the kernel of this debate, the people who are guilty of the road traffic offences and driving those high-performance vehicles are actually men in their 30s. Although I do not doubt that there is a problem with antisocial behaviour among young people that we have to address through youth work, there is a problem in the adult population, too.
I can give you the time back, Mr Johnson.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.
That is true, without a doubt. It is also borne out if we look at other situations—for example, the instances of violence against shop workers. In another example, Unite the union recently carried out a survey of bus drivers in which 80 per cent said that they had experienced abuse. That behaviour is not confined to younger members of the population—it is widespread.
We therefore need to be nuanced and balanced. Sharon Dowey is absolutely right to raise matters of policing, but it is not just about police numbers. I think that the move to Police Scotland, and to a model that focuses very much on specialist policing, has been to the detriment of local policing divisions, community police officers and response officers.
That is certainly true in Edinburgh. As a result of the move to Police Scotland, there are fewer officers to carry out response work, to undertake the necessary level of community policing and to be visible. Whether it is about deterring motorists who may well have illegal exhausts or illegal modifications on their car, or deterring low-level crime, that presence is important. Certainly, when I talk to the local police, I find that they are frustrated that they cannot do as much of that high-visibility policing as they would like.
Sharon Dowey is also correct in thinking about the consequences. I would argue, however, that those consequences should not all be criminal in nature. For example, she raised a point about whether we could curtail bus passes if people abuse them. That is the sort of low-level, non-criminal response that we need to look at. It means that, if people carry out actions that are illegal or antisocial and they are observed and caught, there are consequences for them.
I am arriving at the five-minute mark, so I am probably exhausting my time. I reiterate my thanks to Alex Cole-Hamilton. These are important issues and we have started an interesting debate. It is important to our constituents that we talk about this in the round and holistically because, ultimately, we are talking about the wellbeing of our communities.
17:30
I commend Alex Cole-Hamilton for bringing the debate to the chamber. I signed the motion only today as I had been unaware of it. As soon as I read it, I signed it immediately.
The campaign has been on-going for some time, including a members’ business debate that I had in September. Other MSPs from across the chamber have said that they have brought similar issues to the Parliament in previous years. There is continuity there, and it is fair to say that there is a cross-party approach to the issue.
Today’s debate clearly links to the debate on the issues of off-road vehicles that I had in September. During that debate, I mentioned David Gow, my now-deceased constituent, who passed away in February last year at the age of 79. He was mown down by a man on a quad bike on Balmoral Road in my constituency. Two quad bikes were involved. I will say no more just now, because the matter is still subject to police proceedings. Councillor Allan Gow, David’s brother, was in the chamber during that debate, as was his son, Craig, and other family members whose lives were devastated by what happened.
That was not the only time that such a thing happened in the areas that I represent. More needs to be done, not just through policing and by the local authority, but at a national, Scottish and UK level. I have met Police Scotland, which is looking for many more tools in the box—there is that old soundbite—to do all that it can to tackle this scourge. I know from Councillor Gow that local authorities would love to have more powers in relation to the issue.
Let us be clear. Some people use quad bikes and they cause a nuisance and they can be a blight, but it can be wholly unintentional—silliness, misadventure and what have you. Let us also be blunt. There is another cohort out there who want to make the noise, who want to disturb, and who want to make people’s lives a misery. They want the status that a shiny quad bike has. They want to pull their hood over their head so that they cannot be identified. They are not risk averse and it is deeply sinister. Something more has to be done than is currently being done.
It is not a uniquely Scottish thing—it is happening right across the UK and, I suspect, further afield. Those individuals have a loose adherence to the law of the land, by which I mean that they care not a hoot for good practice when they are riding those vehicles out and about.
Of course, the vehicles are illegal anyway, because they are not taxed or MOT’d and the drivers do not necessarily have a driving licence. We cannot stop them, because they will speed off and it becomes more risky to pursue them than it does to do anything else. We have to think about the range of offences that are already being committed daily and weekly, the powers that police and local authorities do or do not have, and what more we can do at a Scottish and UK level.
On a UK level, I had mentioned the hope that we could perhaps look at the registration of off-road vehicles. I do not care whether a vehicle goes on footpaths, roads or our public parks, if it does not have an identifiable registration number, let us get it confiscated and make that an offence. Let us have strict liability in relation to that. That would require a change at the UK level as much as the Scottish level. Let us do it and work together. In fact, my colleague Anne McLaughlin, the former MP for Glasgow North East, was looking into that, and I was supportive of that, as was Guy Opperman, the relevant UK minister at the time. Councillor Gow and I have written to the Rt Hon Dame Diana Johnson MP, who is the new Minister of State for Policing, Fire and Crime Prevention. She said:
“The Government has no plans to make registration and insurance mandatory for off-road bikes, because we do not believe that this would be the most effective way to tackle dangerous and antisocial use.”
I am not making a party-political issue of that, although I disagree with it. Councillor Gow and I very much hope to meet the relevant minister to make the case again in a constructive, cross-party, non-partisan way. The case is there to be made. At the moment, the UK Government is not there. I am not being remotely tribal or party-political; I just think that the UK Government has to think a wee bit more about the issue, and I want to work constructively with it on a cross-party basis.
At the end of my debate, I asked for a national working group at a Scottish level to look at all of this, and the minister who summed up, Jim Fairlie, agreed that that could be set in motion. I also wrote to the First Minister, John Swinney, after Alex Cole-Hamilton’s excellent question at First Minister’s question time. I am still waiting for a meeting. Councillor Gow is still waiting for a meeting. The bereaved family is still waiting for news. We must do better. I commend Alex Cole-Hamilton for his work on this area.
17:35
I thank Mr Cole-Hamilton for bringing this topical and timely debate to the chamber. I am glad to have the chance to speak today, especially after the outrageous behaviour that took place across our capital city last week. I will focus on those events, although antisocial behaviour across our capital encompasses far more than just bonfire night, as we have heard already.
I have previously written about the impact of the SNP’s police budget raids and how repeated cost cutting has slashed the number of front-line officers and is contributing to rising antisocial behaviour. That was apparent for all to see. The events of bonfire night demonstrated, once again, that there is a hardcore element that is determined not just to challenge authority but to positively revel in making ordinary people feel uncomfortable in their own homes.
It could be argued that that hardcore element now views 5 November as an opportunity to face off with police. Our police are stretched to breaking point by SNP cuts, so many criminals know that they can get away with it. We want to double jail time for people who attack our emergency services.
Trevor Wemyss is a constituent of mine. He wrote to me on 6 November, saying:
“My wife and I arrived home to witness a group of 25 balaclava clad and dressed in black youths arrive in our car park.
They were carrying giant fireworks and spoke about firing them at the flat windows. They were also armed with baseball bats.
For the next 3 hours the scheme was virtually held under siege as they set off fireworks and threw bottles. We are lucky that, so far nobody has died or been seriously injured. Allowing mobs to attack the petrol station on Calder Road could have led to multiple casualties!
We cannot allow massed armed groups to take over our streets, we need decisive action from our politicians and police force.”
Bus drivers, families living in the area and emergency services are all suffering because of this unacceptable behaviour. It gets worse every year. If it continues like this, someone is going to get seriously hurt. Another constituent wrote to me, saying:
“I live in Moredun in the south of the city and that last night was terrifying. Black-clad balaclava-wearing youths started appearing in my area about 6 pm and as the evening went on, we had to deal with a group of about 20 of them hanging about with weapons, fireworks being thrown around and lit on the road, a fire being set, bins being stolen and set on fire, one of my neighbours was threatened with a baseball bat, the fences from the greenspace redevelopment were used to barricade the road ... I called 999 3 times, 3 of my neighbours also called 999 multiple times and no one ever showed up.
Even later on when police were along Moredun Park Road and my neighbour called 999 again and was told officers were being sent down, no one showed up. My husband went out and (with the assistance of a neighbour) put a fire out himself during a quiet period. Other residents joined him to move fences back and pick up litter strewn about from stolen bins.
I understand it was a crazy night and the police were stretched very thin, but we should not be left to fend for ourselves and literally put fires out on our own.”
I went out on patrol with the police just two weeks ago to see for myself what a routine patrol looks like, and it should worry us all. As I mentioned, many of my constituents have experienced slow responses to 999 calls and have wondered what is going on. What they will not know is how many vehicles are off the road, how many officers are off sick and what those at work must deal with.
As long as the police are underresourced, overstretched and forced to operate as social workers, communities will feel threatened by gangs of disaffected youths who feel that they can act with impunity. I most definitely associate myself with the comments of the previous contributor, Mr Bob Doris.
17:39
I congratulate Alex Cole-Hamilton on securing a debate on this important subject. It is saddening that there will be hardly a community in Scotland that will not be experiencing the issue that we are discussing today. The Antisocial Behaviour etc (Scotland) Act 2004 was passed 20 years ago, but the yearly disorder on bonfire night in Edinburgh shows that such behaviour is still a problem that affects people’s lives.
Sometimes, antisocial behaviour is dismissed as a normal part of life, but we must recognise that persistent unacceptable behaviour has terrible effects for those who fall victim to it. I note the findings of the “Still living a nightmare” report, which includes troubling testimony from those falling victim to persistent antisocial behaviour. I quote:
“every day I’m crying, it makes me anxious... and it actually makes me physically sick”.
That sort of thing is not minor and cannot be ignored.
I have heard from constituents, many from ethnic minorities, stories of feeling victimised and targeted by antisocial behaviour. Some were told that their best course of action was just to move house. That is not good enough. People have the right to feel welcome in their communities and safe in their homes.
That extends to businesses, too. Last week, I spoke to the Scottish Grocers Federation. Its crime report found that violence, shoplifting and threats were commonplace, but 93 per cent of the retailers stated that police responses to shoplifting incidents were unsatisfactory and 76 per cent said that they were unlikely to report incidents to the police. The public must have confidence that they will be listened to if they report antisocial behaviour.
Scotland has, rightly, taken a preventive rather than a punitive approach to tackling antisocial behaviour. We know that such behaviour is more common in areas of multiple deprivation and that those who engage in it are often dealing with other issues. Given that the review of Scotland’s approach to antisocial behaviour found that third sector organisations were often highly effective in intervention and prevention, it is disappointing that the very organisations that can tackle the issues are struggling. Earlier this year, the investing in communities fund, which aims to address poverty and disadvantage by funding third sector projects, was cut. When that is combined with local government and Police Scotland underfunding, our capacity to prevent antisocial behaviour is weakened.
Antisocial behaviour is not some minor issue. It causes anxiety and fear, and it makes our communities less welcoming. There are multiple drivers of such behaviour, which cannot be solved in one fell swoop, but the public must have confidence that, if they report antisocial behaviour, they will be listened to.
17:43
Like others, I congratulate Alex Cole-Hamilton on securing this important debate. I appreciate that the issues that he raises about South Queensferry relate to adults, but, like other colleagues, I want to touch on the issues that we are experiencing with regard to youth crime.
As others have referenced, the issues that we face with motor vehicles and off-road bikes apply particularly to youth crime issues across the city, although I appreciate that the situation in South Queensferry is slightly different. I was glad to hear Alex Cole-Hamilton talk about the collaborative approach that we took with operation Soteria, along with Daniel Johnson, who I see is sitting next to him.
Off-road bikes were being stolen in the south of the city, then driven through the city centre in a problematic, antisocial and dangerous way, and we know what happened in the north of the city. However, thanks to a collaborative approach, youth work investment, an initiative from Police Scotland, engagement from the Scottish Government’s violence reduction unit and a whole range of other initiatives, including funding from the Robertson Trust, we have managed to make a difference in that situation.
Unfortunately, as others have articulated, we have since the pandemic seen an upward trend in problematic youth antisocial behaviour and criminality. I appreciate that the same is happening in other parts of the country, but I can speak only for Edinburgh. I do find it interesting that five Edinburgh and Lothian MSPs are speaking in this debate.
I am grateful to Ben Macpherson for reminding members of the work of operation Soteria and the partnership work in particular. He is right that the long shadow of lockdown has seen an uptick in youth antisocial behaviour. There is no question about that—whether it is violence in our schools or against shop workers, we are seeing that uptick.
Does Ben Macpherson agree that we cannot wait for something bad to happen to take action? In many ways, operation Soteria and the work of the stronger north initiative were triggered by the sad death of Brad Williamson, who was killed while racing a motorcycle. We need to think about prevention and getting to problem areas before the incidents become fatal and tragic, as happened in Silverknowes.
I can give you the time back, Mr Macpherson.
I absolutely agree with Alex Cole-Hamilton. The point that he makes is the reason why I felt compelled to speak in the debate. I would say that we are very lucky that something more tragic and even worse has not happened on the streets of Edinburgh in the past year. I do know that the same issue applies elsewhere—for example, Bob Doris brought up the tragic situation with one of his constituents.
This is a really serious issue. I have had emails this year, particularly in the summer, about off-road motor vehicles being driven at high speed up pavements through really dense urban areas, with people in balaclavas undertaking attacks and engaging in really serious shoplifting and violence. Last night, I had an email about a traffic warden being attacked in Leith by minors.
The issue is, as I have said, really serious, and, as colleagues have alluded to, it needs to be much further up the agenda. In Edinburgh, there is a serious operational question for Police Scotland about the deployment of resources. We have a growing population in Edinburgh, and that needs to be matched with law enforcement resources. We need to give serious consideration to what more can be done to ensure that youth work initiatives are funded and can undertake preventative work.
We must remember that most young people in Scotland, including in our capital city, are good, doing good things, helping in their community and contributing positively. However, as far as this minority is concerned—a minority which, by the looks of things, is becoming bigger, because of a growing trend that is being nurtured, in some instances, by organised crime—if we do not get on top of the situation, it will only get worse, and something bad might well happen.
The Government needs to consider more resources, more powers and what it can use under current legislation, for example, with regard to balaclavas. We need to get ahead of the issue, so the more parliamentary time that we can have on it, the better.
I commend those who have brought the issue to the chamber, and I back up what colleagues have been saying. If there is anything that I can do to support the Government to help us get on top of the issue, please let me know. Let us work together to make a difference.
I call Siobhan Brown to respond to the debate.
17:48
First, I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for raising this important issue. At the outset, I want to make it clear that the Scottish Government takes very seriously the impact of antisocial behaviour, including antisocial driving, on communities across the whole of Scotland, including in South Queensferry in the Edinburgh Western constituency. We are fully committed to supporting our communities and working with local partners to tackle the issues effectively.
Turning at once to Alex Cole-Hamilton’s concerns about antisocial driving in South Queensferry, I am aware that he will be meeting the First Minister tomorrow to discuss the issue in more detail. Members will be aware that operational decisions such as the allocation of resources are a matter for the chief constable. However, I understand that there has been extensive policing activity in relation to the reports of the antisocial use of vehicles in South Queensferry that came out of Alex Cole-Hamilton’s town hall meeting.
I understand that partnership working between the council and Police Scotland is continuing and that future work is planned, including consideration of speed control measures and improvements to closed-circuit television. Police Scotland and local authorities have a considerable role in that work in tailoring responses that meet the specific needs of communities, as we know that each area is different.
I am very grateful to the minister for her attendance and for the remarks that she has just made. However, in the light of my exchange with Ben Macpherson, does she recognise that, all too often, action is taken only when things get so intolerable that someone dies or is at risk of dying, as happened in the case of Brad Williamson in Silverknowes? For four years, residents of South Queensferry have had to tolerate antisocial driving. Does she recognise that we need to do far more to prevent such behaviour in the first place?
Yes, I do. Bob Doris has previously raised that issue, which is a complex one. I will come on to the question of a task force when I address members’ contributions. We know that a lot of the vehicles legislation is still reserved, so it is a case of getting a group together that can take some positive action, instead of just being a talking shop. That is what the Minister for Agriculture and Connectivity and I would like to do.
Police Scotland and local authorities engage with communities and already employ a range of tools, such as early intervention measures, which include targeted operations, antisocial behaviour orders, dispersal orders and fixed-penalty notices. The decision on what measures are appropriate is an operational decision.
I am aware that antisocial driving affects other parts of Scotland and that calls have been made for other transport-related antisocial behaviour matters to be considered, such as those relating to off-road vehicles, which Bob Doris’s recent motion highlighted.
As members will know, road safety legislation remains reserved, but we have fostered strong partnerships to maximise and enhance road safety. A good example of that is the Scottish safety camera programme, which reflects our commitment to collaborative working. Through that initiative, we partner with Police Scotland, Transport Scotland and local authorities to reduce speeding and dangerous driving, thereby making our roads and communities safer.
I appreciate that the minister said that much of the issue is reserved, but I imagine that Police Scotland, Scotland’s local authorities and other stakeholders with an interest in the subject could come together to decide what could be done in the devolved sphere and to make representations to the UK Government, along with the Scottish Government, about the matters that are reserved. The fact that some of these matters are reserved is surely not a blockage to talking about them.
Absolutely. I will come back to the calls for a task force later on in my speech.
As some members are aware and have acknowledged in their contributions, Police Scotland and local authorities lead on interventions to address antisocial behaviour. Local partnerships are always best placed to understand the issues and what needs to be done, and there have been some great examples of that happening across the country.
All partnerships share the goal of wanting to prevent all kinds of antisocial behaviour. We all want the victims of antisocial behaviour to have the confidence to report incidents to the police and local authorities, and to feel supported and be listened to and updated.
We understand the issues. Although there has been a discussion about whether the matters in question are reserved, many of the activities that we are talking about are illegal. What the issue boils down to is whether there are enough police officers present in local communities to spot the behaviour, apprehend the perpetrators and charge them. Very often, there are simply not enough police officers to do that, especially in the Edinburgh area, which has the lowest number of police officers per capita of any local authority area in Scotland.
I appreciate that. In the most recent budget, a commitment was made to Police Scotland to increase police numbers. Last week, there was an intake of more than 250 new officers, which takes the number of officers up to 16,600 in 2024-25. I acknowledge Mr Johnson’s point, but I know that, as part of operation moonbeam—which I will come on to—on bonfire night last week, 300 extra officers were deployed in areas where it was known that there might be antisocial behaviour. That is an operational matter for Police Scotland, which it takes care of.
On that point, I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for highlighting the survey findings of the Victims Commissioner for England and Wales. Although the work did not focus on Scotland, I am sure that there will be read across to our communities, and evidence relating to the perspective of victims is important—nobody should suffer in silence. I agree with Baroness Newlove that victims should be at the heart of our justice system and should not be forgotten, and people should not have to be repeat victims or suffer for years. In that regard, we are undertaking a programme of work, which is being overseen by the victims task force—informed by lived experience and progressed through collaboration—to improve the experiences of witnesses and victims, which is really important. We are working with partners to develop a trauma-informed workforce in the justice sector, design and deliver a victim-centred approach to justice and improve communications with victims and witnesses.
I know that I am going a little bit over time, Presiding Officer, but I want to mention the task force. As I said, Jim Fairlie and I are keen to set up a meeting with you, Mr Cole-Hamilton, and with Mr Doris, to see how we can move forward and achieve something useful. I hear your point, Mr Doris, about looking at ways of putting pressure on the UK Government to bring—
Minister, could you please speak through the chair and also direct your comments to the microphone, to allow them to be picked up by broadcasting?
Might the minister extend an invite to other members who are taking part in the debate this evening, because the issue is equally pertinent to all of us who are here?
Absolutely. I am happy to talk to Minister Fairlie about that as we move forward, because I know that a lot of people here are passionate about the issue.
I will mention the attacks on emergency services last week. No one should ever face the abuse and violence that we saw last week. Although one officer was injured last week, that is a significant reduction on the same period last year, when 62 officers were injured. The level of hostility that was encountered by the emergency services when responding to the disorder last week was disgraceful. We must give credit to our emergency workers, our police and the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, because they lead on the well-established police-led operation moonbeam. A lot of work goes into that operation—there is as a multi-agency national plan for bonfire night using public order officers. The operation was undertaken last year and this year, and we have seen a decrease in the number of injuries. I am not saying that any antisocial behaviour is acceptable, but we must give credit to our emergency services where it is due. I have been given assurance that the police are using intelligence to identify and apprehend those involved to bring them to justice.
Whenever we have antisocial behaviour debates, there is discussion of a wide variety of antisocial behaviour, which emphasises how complex the matter is. On the bus pass issue, which I know is quite topical, Transport Scotland is working with stakeholders, including the bus industry, to develop specific actions to tackle antisocial behaviour on the bus network. That includes changes to the application forms for the national concessionary travel schemes. Applicants for the scheme already have to agree specific terms and conditions when signing up, but we are working to strengthen those through changes to the application forms to specify expected standards of behaviour when travelling, and we are developing a behaviour code linked to operators’ conditions of carriage and existing legal protections.
I thank Bob Doris for highlighting the devastating case of his constituent David Gow, who lost his life. I know that Bob Doris is very passionate about this issue and has raised the case previously. I will continue to work with the Minister for Agriculture and Connectivity to see how we can put things in place.
I also highlight Clare Adamson’s work in her CPG. She raised a valid concern regarding driver behaviour and how we can use technology to improve it.
Minister, you need to conclude.
Members will also be aware that I have commissioned the independent working group on antisocial behaviour, which is due to report by the end of this year.
I welcome the opportunity to have a debate on these important issues. We are keen to explore options through collaboration and partnership to support safe, respectful and thriving communities and to meet the needs of victims. I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton and all the other members for their contributions.
That concludes the debate.
Meeting closed at 17:59.Previous
Decision Time