Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Meeting date: Wednesday, June 12, 2024

Official Report 1061KB pdf

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Rural Depopulation

The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-13416, in the name of Tim Eagle, on resolving Scotland’s rural depopulation crisis. The debate will be concluded without any question being put. I invite members who wish to participate to press their request-to-speak buttons now.

Motion debated,

That the Parliament believes that many rural communities across Scotland are facing a depopulation crisis; understands that the reasons for rural depopulation are many and varied, including a lack of affordable housing, unreliable public transport, ageing infrastructure, a lack of opportunities for young people, and the inability to easily access healthcare and education services; acknowledges the Scottish Government’s recently published Action Plan to Address Depopulation, which states that 14 local authority areas, including Argyll and Bute and the Western Isles, are projected to have population decline over the next decade; notes the belief that significant interventions are required to reverse what it considers to be the trend of rural depopulation; and further notes the calls for MSPs to work with impacted communities to implement measures that will deliver long-term stability, protection of local services and population growth.

17:19  

I thank all the members who are in the chamber and those who will speak in what is, I think, a pretty important debate. I have to be honest—the slight problem that I have with my debate is where to start. Rural depopulation might not sound like the most interesting of subjects, but, to me, it really is, and I will tell members why. Scotland is stunning—it is beautiful. VisitScotland’s online article on its visitor survey, “Why people choose Scotland”, notes:

“Scotland’s iconic scenery and landscape and the richness of our history and culture remain as the top motivators for”

visiting. If members do not want to listen to tourists, how about listening to Robert Burns, in “My Heart’s in the Highlands”?

“Wherever I wander, wherever I rove,
The hills of the Highlands for ever I love.”

The Highland and Islands provide fresh air, breathtaking scenery and resilient and strong individuals with determination, courage and ambition. However, I do not think that it is over the top to say that the region is dying.

I will highlight just a handful of statistics on the struggles of rural areas. General practices in rural Scotland are closing at more than twice the rate of those in central belt health board areas. The top five health board areas with the highest number of general practitioner vacancies per 100,000 people are in the Highlands. That is no joke—Shetland, Orkney, Western Isles, Highland and Grampian health boards top the list, and all of them are in the north.

Argyll and Bute Council was the first local authority in Scotland to declare a housing emergency, in June 2023. Scotland’s ferry network has collapsed—services have been cancelled, islands have been left isolated and promises to deliver new vessels on time and on budget have been repeatedly broken. The ferries community board has warned that the lack of reliable ferry services is contributing to population decline on the islands.

Essential broadband services, which the people of rural Scotland are, critically, crying out for, were meant to be delivered through the reaching 100 per cent—R100—programme in 2021, but their delivery is behind schedule.

Does the member agree that it is absolutely despicable that 3,500 homes in Dumfries and Galloway are still to be connected under the R100 programme, given that those homes were supposed to be covered by the end of 2021?

I fully agree with the member—communities are crying out to be connected to everybody else so that businesses can survive and thrive. That is what we want in rural Scotland.

The Scottish Government’s report “Accessing school age childcare in rural and island areas”, highlights pressures for parents in Scotland’s most remote areas. Parents are having problems affording childcare, accessing it when they need it and finding resources for children under the age of three. For example, in 2021, half of Ullapool’s private childminders retired, and private and council-funded nurseries closed permanently during the pandemic.

Inverness and Cromarty Firth Green Freeport is expected to create about 10,000 jobs in the next decade and beyond. That is great news, one would think, and something that we can all get behind—apart from the fact that Highland Council is forecasting a 23 per cent fall in pupil numbers across its 29 secondary schools within the next 15 years. In addition, a 21 per cent decline is projected for schools in and around the freeport area, and I point out, if members are interested, that there are projections for a 24 per cent decline in the west Highlands and a 27 per cent decline in Skye.

I absolutely appreciate the points that Tim Eagle has made about housing availability. I point out that, in Ullapool, the average house price last recorded was more than £310,000, largely because many of the available houses are being used as short-term lets. Does he accept that the houses around the Inverness freeport, and the new people whom it will bring in, are not counted in those Highland Council figures for school rolls?

I can give you the time back, Mr Eagle.

Thank you, Presiding Officer.

I will be honest—I do not know the specifics of the case that the member has mentioned. However, I will come to the general issue later. Tourism is essential for rural Scotland, so we have to consider that, and there is an issue with the Scottish National Party Government’s delivery of housing.

Rurality is known to be associated with a number of weaker educational outcomes, from low attainment through to lower social mobility, and there remain concerns that school pupils in remote parts of Scotland have lower levels of literacy and numeracy than those in accessible and urban areas.

I could go on—I have not even mentioned fishing, agriculture, tourism or the big issue of housing, which Emma Roddick just spoke about. What about migration and the future provision for adult health and social care that will be required as a result of immigration?

Will the member take an intervention?

What about the barriers to accessing healthcare for those in poverty?

I am sorry—did I miss an attempt to intervene? Was somebody trying to intervene? Yes.

I call Alasdair Allan.

It is curious that the member has mentioned migration, given that his party has just abolished our freedom of movement across Europe, the effects of which have been keenly felt in fragile rural areas in particular.

I think that the member might have missed my point—I am talking about internal migration: the movement of people within Scotland. That is fair enough, though—the member can talk about that issue later on.

None of what I have said is intended to take anything away from those who are making things work, and I thank all those in our rural areas—our teachers, doctors, nurses, business leaders and so on—who are doing incredible work.

Surely we can all agree that we want rural Scotland to thrive, so let us move on to talk about action. The Scottish Government has just published the document, “Supporting and enabling sustainable communities: An Action Plan to Address Depopulation”. The 88 actions in the plan centre on three key aspects: community level, regional and local actors and the national level. Importantly, the plan recognises

“depopulation as a priority area of focus for the Scottish Government”.

Included in the list of actions is

“the establishment of an Addressing Depopulation Fund”.

The fund

“will initially make available £180,000 to be split between a prospective three local authorities”

over two financial years. A total of £180,000 between two local authorities is £90,000 each—sorry, it is between three local authorities. Members might remember that, a few seconds ago, I said that I hoped that all of us would get behind a thriving rural Scotland. We have to ask ourselves how £30,000 per authority will really make much of a difference.

In fairness, during a visit to Shetland in May, First Minister John Swinney announced £5 million for Scotland’s island communities. We also have the islands deal, which is worth £100 million, with £50 million each from the United Kingdom and Scottish Governments over the next 10 years. That will help to drive sustainable and inclusive economic growth across Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles.

Those measures are welcome, but they are not enough. It is great that we have a plan for funding economic projects, but, as populations decrease, so does funding to councils through the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities funding formula, and there is an increased risk of closure of local public services such as hospitals, community hospitals and GP surgeries.

When we talk about migration, there is an inconvenient truth that the SNP seems to avoid: the migration from rural to urban areas, which is based on a lack of investment in infrastructure over the past 17 years. Does the member agree with that?

I absolutely do—I am just about to mention roads and infrastructure.

Where was I? Funding should clearly reflect the needs of servicing rural populations and should not be based on population numbers. Rural areas need a new funding formula—I am calling for that today—that recognises the increased costs and difficulties of providing services over a much wider geographical area. They need a new model for recruiting and retaining professionals in key roles, investment in roads and a Government that will not just write plans that are then delayed but back up its words with the finances that will allow those plans to become reality.

I am coming to a finish, Presiding Officer. The question is this: if we can all accept that Scotland’s rural landscapes are stunning, that those landscapes require local communities to nurture them and provide businesses for tourism, whisky and much more, and that rural populations deserve access to essential services such as those relating to health, education, sports and roads, can we all agree, therefore, to get behind a new funding mechanism that will, beyond specific deals, give local populations and their public services the chance to grow once again?

Will the minister commit to fighting for an increase in funding for rural Scotland in this year’s budget, and will she consider rural proofing all new policies so that our communities can be assured that we are listening?

As we move to the open debate, I remind members who wish to participate to press their request-to-speak buttons. If they have made an invention, they might need to re-press their button.

17:28  

Thank you, Presiding Officer, for the reminder about the buttons.

I thank Tim Eagle for bringing the debate to the chamber, as I always welcome an opportunity to talk about population challenges and solutions. I apologise for objecting to what is, I think, Tim Eagle’s first members’ business opening speech, but I must respond to his suggestion that depopulation might not be the most interesting subject. When I was a minister, it was my favourite subject, because when we talk about population, we can talk about absolutely anything. I will forgive him that transgression, however, because I think that he is right, in his motion, to put housing first on the list of reasons for depopulation.

Although housing availability is not a driver in every area that is facing depopulation, it is, by far, the issue that is raised most often with me when people talk about what is causing them difficulty in moving to, or staying in, the Highlands and Islands.

It is key that we recognise that the solution is not just about building new homes but about retaining the stock that we have and driving down costs. However, availability is a big part of that, and we cannot ignore the fact that, in many towns and tourist hot spots across the Highlands and Islands, more than half of the residential houses are being used as short-term lets. That prevents people from actually living in those buildings, which were intended to be homes.

Recently, there was a very good piece in The Press and Journal about the impact of Airbnb on housing prices. We often hear about how few houses are available for private let in the Highlands and Islands and about how long housing lists are for council and social landlord houses. However, when we consider those numbers, we also need to look at the Airbnb results pages for those areas, as we find a strong correlation, and it is wrong to ignore it.

We also need to talk ourselves up. I know that there is a tendency to talk about how difficult things are—they are difficult, and I do not deny that, nor do I deny the need for investment and action to change the depopulation situation. However, we will not attract people to move to, or invest in, the Highlands and Islands if all that they hear is that nobody wants to live there and that services are struggling.

I am proud to represent the Highlands and Islands and to live there. I have a strong affection for my local area, having grown up in Ross-shire, supporting Inverness Caley Thistle like my mam—even though they are putting me through the wringer right now—and having connections from Argyll to Shetland.

People want to live in the region that we represent. There are highly skilled jobs available, and there is a good quality of life in many ways and incredible potential in energy, space, innovation and many other sectors.

I hope that people who hear me say that will not think that I am trying to divert blame, because that is not the case. I simply want to ensure that people hear that these places are good places to live. I want the Government to hear that it is not just that areas that are suffering with depopulation need investment and action to stay sustainable; they deserve those things. It is to the benefit of the whole country if we have vibrant, productive and active rural and island communities.

Unsustainable population increases are also difficult to manage, in different ways, for local authorities that have to deal with them. Inverness, Skye and Edinburgh, for example, struggle in that way. A balanced population allows for economic activity across the board, in technology, agriculture, fisheries and many other sectors.

I point out that Mr Eagle, in his contribution, missed out some key investments from the Scottish Government, such as the investment in the Port of Nigg, near where I grew up. We know that the impact of that investment will be significant not just for the area around the port but for the wider area that has been identified, in terms of population movement. That has not been factored into projections for school rolls. School roll projections can change, and I sincerely hope that there are changes as a direct result of the forthcoming Scottish Government investment.

Finally, I apologise, Presiding Officer, as, given the interest in the debate, I am not certain that I can stay for its full duration, but I am really glad that so many members want to contribute on such an interesting topic.

17:33  

I thank my friend and colleague Tim Eagle for bringing to the chamber what is, as I am sure we all agree, an extremely important subject, particularly for those who live in or represent my Highlands and Islands region.

In my time as an MSP, I have led a number of members’ business debates. Most recently, I led a debate on wood-burning stoves—which some members in the chamber tonight supported—and I have also led debates on the A9, the state of our roads, ambulances, ferries and apprenticeships. Those debates have all been very well attended, and I mention them because they represent the infrastructure, opportunities and services, as well as the resilience, that are all vital if we want to have sustainable rural and island communities in Scotland.

I do not have time to speak about all those aspects, so I will focus on some that I think that it is important to highlight. I will start with health, as it is an issue that gets a huge amount of attention and that we are all very much aware of, particularly those of us who live in rural Scotland. In the past few months, I have raised the issue of the lack of urgent 24/7 care at Portree hospital and have cited some of the incidents that have happened.

We know—again, because the matter has been raised repeatedly—about the pressures on our maternity services across the Highlands. Douglas Ross has raised the issues at Dr Gray’s hospital, Edward Mountain has talked about the situation in Caithness, and I have mentioned the situation on Skye. Those are all real concerns—for a young family, or for anyone who wants to start a family, such issues are barriers to staying in those areas, as I was told on my recent visit by one former ambulance driver. He described a number of times when he had hammered down really bad, often single-track, roads at 90mph to get people from Skye to Inverness to give birth.

Tim Eagle mentioned the issue of rural GPs, who are underfunded and under great pressure. At the weekend, it was announced that the last national health service dentist in Kyle is to be lost. That means that there will be no NHS dentist for the whole of that area, which will cause real issues. If we are trying to encourage people either to stay in our rural communities or to move there, the healthcare and other forms of emergency care that they will need must be there. They have to be able to start their families in the knowledge that they will be able to bring them up in a safe way.

Other members have mentioned housing and schools, which are two major issues that often sit side by side. The Scottish Government has belatedly declared a housing emergency. However, those of us who live in the Highlands and Islands have known that there has been such an emergency for many years. The Scottish Government’s rural and islands housing funds were underspent, then extended, and then underspent again, but there did not seem to be any effort to change the criteria for them. It should have been possible for that vital money to have been used to provide homes for people in our communities.

The school estate in the Highlands is the worst in Scotland. Despite some local councillors wanting to declare a Highland school estate emergency, that move was blocked by the administration at Highland Council. It put its head in the sand over what is a real issue, which other members and I have seen when we have visited schools across the Highlands. We want people to be able to stay in communities and be educated there, but they have to be confident that their children, too, will be educated in safe schools that enhance their learning.

I could talk about many other issues, but I will touch briefly on just a few. We talk about the north-east being vital for oil and gas jobs, but the Highlands and Islands has a lot of highly paid jobs in that sector, too. Some parties in the Parliament would threaten those jobs.

Tourism is another industry that is being hammered at the moment because of the rules and regulations that have come from this chamber on, for example, short-term lets and the deposit return scheme. There has been a lack of real thought.

Will the member take an intervention?

I really do not have time. I apologise to Emma Roddick.

I will touch very briefly on transport. Speaking as an islander, I know—as will the very generous Deputy Presiding Officer—that there is a real problem with ferries, and we all know that there are problems with routes such as the A9.

I will conclude. If we want people to stay in our rural communities in order to bring up their families and watch them grow up there, we have to ensure that they have the services, connectivity and homes that they need. That is not happening just now.

17:37  

I, too, thank Tim Eagle for bringing this important debate to the chamber. Depopulation has long been recognised as a rural problem, yet we have seen very little progress in addressing it. Earlier this year, the Scottish Government published an action plan to address depopulation, but most of the actions that it contained related to previous announcements—there was nothing new in it. There was scope to take action on a number of recommendations, such as the delivery plan for the second strategic transport projects review and the fair fares review. However, the Scottish Government decided to “explore”, “develop”, “work with”, “engage” and “consider” many aspects rather than do anything practical.

The time for prevarication is long past. We know what is needed to address depopulation, and we have to see it being delivered. Rural businesses are buoyant, yet the Fraser of Allander Institute states that 28 per cent of rural businesses report significant negative impacts due to the lack of housing. That is double the figure that has been reported for urban areas. However. the Scottish Government’s rural building target includes areas that are commuter towns for our large cities. Those areas will attract housing investment, further drawing resources away from rural areas that face depopulation.

How will the Scottish Government meet the housing needs of our rural areas that are distant from cities, where the cost of building a home is 10 times—or sometimes hundreds of times—more expensive than in urban areas? Such rural areas have houses, but they are being bought up as second homes or holiday lets. Those types of housing are pricing out local people, who are often low paid or are working multiple jobs simply to make one wage.

What is the Government doing to ensure that people in those circumstances can compete and that they have access to the finance that they need, and to mortgages, to enable them to access reasonably priced houses? What are we doing to retain housing stock for those who live and work in rural and island communities?

It is not just about the people; it is also about services. If workers cannot find a place to live, they cannot take up a job opportunity that may involve providing a public service. We heard earlier about Portree hospital, which is often closed because of a lack of staff. According to NHS Highland, that is largely due to a lack of housing, because people take up those job opportunities but then have to pull out because they cannot find somewhere to live.

Could Rhoda Grant confirm that Kate Forbes said today, at the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation, that the lack of rural housing is a factor in causing depopulation?

Yes—I think that that is widely understood by everybody; we need action on affordable housing in rural areas.

We know that 25 per cent of people in Scotland live in affordable rented housing. However, in rural Scotland, that figure falls to 15 per cent. That difference highlights the lack of availability of affordable rented housing in rural areas. Rural dwellers are, therefore, more likely to have to buy or to privately rent accommodation and, as a result, they are much more likely to be impacted by the second-home market.

We can add to that the fact that poverty is higher in rural areas. The reasons for fuel poverty are well understood, but that is not so much the case for the higher cost of living. Even before the cost of living crisis, costs were between 15 per cent and 30 per cent higher in rural and island communities. We are getting to the point at which rural Scotland will simply be a playground for the rich, deserted by ordinary people who would wish to make their home and raise their family there but cannot afford to do so.

The cost of goods is higher and public transport is non-existent, which means that people are forced to run a car. Those cars have to be low cost, which means that they are older and less efficient to run. That all adds to the higher cost of living. The Poverty Alliance makes that point in its briefing for the debate, noting that poverty is driven by high transport and energy costs in rural areas.

Rural areas need homes, infrastructure and access to services, and I urge the Scottish Government to act to provide those things.

17:42  

I thank Tim Eagle for securing the debate on a very important issue: the future of our rural and island communities.

My constituency famously includes the island of Hiort, or St Kilda. Next year marks the 90th anniversary of the evacuation of the last of that island’s population. St Kilda’s story has become sadly iconic, but it is far from the most recent island in my constituency to be abandoned—Taransay, Heisker and Scarp all spring to mind. All those examples make it only too clear what, ultimately, depopulation can mean and what happens if we do not meet the needs of rural and island communities today.

Scotland’s Parliament and Government have long been active in seeking to tackle these issues. In February this year, as other members have mentioned, the Scottish Government published its action plan to address depopulation, in which it set out its priorities to reverse depopulation in Scotland.

Like other members, I could talk for a long time—but I will not, today—about the policies that it takes to tackle depopulation.

Will the member take a brief intervention?

If it is very brief.

Does Alasdair Allan worry that the action plan is not based on a statutory footing?

I suspect that if it were, the member would complain that we were wasting time legislating, rather than providing policies.

As I said, there are many areas of policy that need to be, and are being, tackled. I could go through many of them, but I will touch on one, which is housing. Many members have mentioned housing. In addition to the money that is going into social housing, we have to confront—as Rhoda Grant and others pointed out—the reality that there are some parts of the country where the housing market, in operating as it presently does, is not operating in the interests of rural communities.

To pick up on a defensive point that was made by a member on the Tory benches, I make it clear that some of the people who complain to me about the situation with housing being unavailable for people to buy locally because of the tourist market are actually those who run tourist businesses, who cannot find a workforce because there is nowhere for people who work in their industry to live.

There are, of course, other things that we could say about infrastructure, which has already been mentioned in the debate. We could certainly talk about broadband, as others have done. I accept that we need to roll out digital connectivity further for many communities in rural constituencies, to ensure that they can flourish in the future. Fast broadband speeds will certainly ensure that when they come.

Given what we have heard from the Tories today, it is worth putting on record that, despite broadband being fully reserved to the UK Government, the vast share of the cost of new digital infrastructure, via, for example, the reaching 100 per cent—R100—programme, has been borne by the Scottish Government. Scotland’s rural communities simply were not a priority for BT or the UK Government, so the Scottish Government stepped in.

Does Alasdair Allan appreciate that R100 was a Scottish Government project that fell far short of what was required and was years behind schedule, and that the physical roll-out of broadband is devolved to the Scottish Government?

We can argue all day about whether broadband is or is not reserved. The Scotland Act 1998 says that it is. The more important point is that we have to support our rural communities in many ways.

The language that we use to describe our rural communities is also important. For starters, they are not “remote”, although worse descriptions have been used in recent months by certain individuals. We have seen the former Tory deputy chairman describe my own constituency as a place where “nobody lives”, and suggesting that it should be used as a sort of surrogate Rwanda for asylum seekers. Meanwhile, a Labour parliamentary candidate has implied on television that northern Scotland’s apparent “remoteness” makes it an ideal location to berth accommodation barges packed with smuggler gangs.

I am confident that the Parliament will take forward to the future its commitment to tackling depopulation in our rural areas. We need such debates to renew our focus on the priorities that we should have now for rural Scotland, as well as the ambitions that we should have for rural Scotland when we have the full powers of a normal independent country at our disposal.

17:47  

I thank Tim Eagle for this important debate. As we have heard, the depopulation of rural and island communities is one of the most pressing challenges that our nation faces. It is often closely intertwined with deep-rooted issues of rural poverty. If it is left unaddressed, it will risk permanently altering the fabric of Scottish society and depriving us of the rich cultural heritage that is embodied in our rural areas.

A tremendous opportunity could be brought to the Highlands and Islands through the actions that are needed to address the climate and nature emergencies. At a recent meeting of the cross-party group on rural policy, Matthew Clubb from the North East Scotland Retrofit Hub pointed out that we have the potential to have 500,000 jobs for retrofitting housing across Scotland so that we meet our 2045 climate target. Those are good, green jobs in just one sector. However, our rural economies can also be transformed through work in nature restoration, renewable energy, culture, community and care.

We cannot allow the same corporate capture of the renewables revolution that has blighted fossil fuel development for decades. Community ownership puts people, not private profit, at the heart of our energy transformation. With a stake and a share in renewable projects, communities can reinvest in locally determined priorities such as affordable housing, community facilities and environmental initiatives.

As we have heard, what stands in the way is housing. That is why I led a debate on rural housing and why I have been working on solutions with communities, local authorities and the Scottish Government to address the need for a range of housing to grow our rural and island populations.

I have heard from rural and island communities that they are often challenged internally with conflict. That is why I have been raising with the Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs, Land Reform and Islands the need to fund skilled community organisers and development workers to address the challenges that they face in a way that suits them.

We have seen a superb example of that work with the Association of Deer Management Groups and environmental conservation organisations, and the work that the Centre for Good Relations did in facilitating a process of greater understanding. The carbon neutral islands and regional land use partnerships are fantastic testing grounds for a new, supported approach to community engagement and empowerment.

We must take seriously the call for greater democracy and consider more ways for people to engage more fully with the policy design that will impact their lives. The best way to do that is to devolve decision making and fiscal power to the most local sphere, where people decide what matters to them on their doorstep. I found it interesting that Tim Eagle said that the thrust of this evening’s debate was to call for a new fiscal formula.

The cost of living is significantly higher in rural Scotland than it is in urban areas. That phenomenon, which is known as the “rural premium”, means that geographical barriers necessitate travelling further for essential services, goods cost more and harsher climates drive up heating costs.

Will the member take an intervention?

I am sorry, but I do not have time.

Any strategy to rejuvenate rural Scotland must confront that interlocked web of rural poverty drivers head on. Innovative approaches such as piloting a minimum income guarantee in rural areas might be part of the solution.

Young people are a vital asset in rural areas. To ensure that they remain or return, we must adopt innovative approaches to providing opportunities for empowerment, education and employment, but we must also listen to their priorities and concerns.

Earlier this year, the Scottish rural and islands youth parliament convened, which enabled young people to articulate their vision for the future of their communities. Those young people recognise that tackling depopulation requires holistic economic, social and environmental solutions. We must heed their calls and work tirelessly to create vibrant rural communities and opportunity-rich places where young people can thrive. When young people and communities see their priorities embraced as an impetus for change and feel that their voices have authentically shaped decisions that will impact their futures, rural living will become an inspirational and magnetic prospect, not a fading dream.

17:52  

I thank Tim Eagle for bringing this important debate to the chamber.

Those of us who represent rural areas are acutely aware of depopulation and its consequences for our communities. Since I was elected to represent Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley, I have seen the impact that depopulation has had, especially across our former coalfields.

There has been a brilliant oral history project on the go, supported by the Coalfield Communities Landscape Partnership and the University of Strathclyde, to document life in Ayrshire’s lost villages. I have been fascinated to hear of the bustling communities that built up around the pits at places such as Lethanhill and Trabboch, where miners and their families toiled to power the industrial revolution but were beholden to their employers for the miners’ row cottages that were tied to their employment.

Some of those settlements consisted of only a few rows, while others became villages, complete with community halls and reading rooms that were constructed via funds raised by the villagers themselves. One such place even became the place of footballing legend. There is very little left of Glenbuck today, but that small village of 1,700 folk, who lived without electricity and indoor plumbing, was the birthplace of the Glenbuck Cherrypickers football club and was home to pioneers of the game. It produced 50 professional footballers, six Scottish internationals, four FA cup winners and, most famously, Liverpool manager Bill Shankly. I urge anyone who is a Shankly fan to visit the memorial at Glenbuck and take a moment to look around and contemplate what was lost along with the buildings and the pit closures.

When I was COSLA’s spokesperson for community wellbeing with responsibility for migration, I worked across parties and local authority areas when we convened a working group to look at the significant demographic and depopulation patterns across the west of Scotland. We recognised then that a concerted effort had to be made across all spheres of government—UK, Scottish and local—to look at the drivers and consequences of depopulation, coupled with an ageing population. It was fully recognised that communities must be supported and empowered to help drive regeneration.

It was apparent that depopulation quickly becomes an unstoppable force that can result in a community shrinking rapidly, unless concrete interventions are developed to stop the exodus of young people towards more urban settings, from which they do not venture back when they start families of their own. I emigrated to Canada at the age of six, but my family are very unusual in that we all came back.

Connectivity, opportunity and amenity, including access to employment opportunities, health and social care services and leisure, are key for the areas at risk in my constituency. Housing pressures are very different in places such as New Cumnock. We had a mass exodus when the last of the pits closed, which led to an oversupply of social housing; creative thinking was needed to try to consolidate the town’s future and, as a result, derelict properties were demolished and new amenity properties were built closer to the town’s core centre.

Central to that activity was the coming together of the community to create the New Cumnock Development Trust, which spearheaded community empowerment via the creation of a community-led action plan, leading ultimately to a town master plan for regeneration. Recently, the trust has secured £1.8 million from the Scottish Government regeneration capital grant funding round and also £165,000 from levelling up funds to put towards its goals. It also supports the community with access to leisure and activities, dignified food provision, youth activities and social enterprise.

The area has seen a proliferation of renewable energy, and the nine community councils representing the areas that are most impacted, including New Cumnock, have come together to create the 9CC Group—which is not a 10cc tribute band—to help manage and distribute community benefit allocations from new and future wind farm developments. It aims to strengthen its community councils through increased participation, active citizenship and cross-membership with other groups.

The group believes that communities should have full control over the disbursement of community benefits and recognises that to deliver long-term legacy benefits and regeneration, it is imperative that those community benefit moneys, when disbursed, are pooled and co-ordinated. Recently, an initiative between the group, East Ayrshire local employability partnership and local employer Emergency One Group provided more than £1.5 million funding over four years for 20 trade apprentices, to give local young people brilliant opportunities.

I believe that what is happening in New Cumnock is ground-up regeneration of a rural community, supported at all levels of government, and I am sure that the same thing is being replicated in other areas across the country. However, we must ensure that we provide the means by which other areas can forge a path for the thriving future of their own communities.

I am conscious that a number of members still want to participate in the debate. On that basis, I am minded to accept a motion without notice, under rule 8.14.3 of standing orders, to extend the debate by up to 30 minutes. I invite Tim Eagle to move the motion.

Motion moved,

That, under Rule 8.14.3, the debate be extended by 30 minutes.—[Tim Eagle]

Motion agreed to.

I call Rachael Hamilton. You have around four minutes, Ms Hamilton.

17:57  

I thank my colleague Tim Eagle for securing this important debate on the depopulation crisis that rural communities are facing. I will start by sharing with members a challenge that faces a community in my constituency and which chimes with what Tim Eagle said earlier.

Following SNP cuts to local authority budgets, the local authority in the area has taken a tough decision to make the nursery in Westruther inactive, citing low enrolment and pressures on its resource allocations. I recently met several local parents, who shared the impact that the move will have on their daily lives. Many are worried that it will leave them with no access whatsoever to childcare options, as the next closest nursery is 20 minutes away, with no direct bus connections from the village.

Despite the construction of new housing, which will not be completed until 2025, the closure of the early learning centre is another barrier that is making it harder to keep families in the village or attract them to it. It might seem small, but our campaign has reached a very large number of people, and it goes beyond the village of Westruther. The fact that we have had 130 signatures so far demonstrates the residents’ anger and frustration about the impact that cutting such key local services will have on their community’s future.

It is just one example of the challenges faced by residents who want to make rural communities their home. A woman to whom I spoke said that she had moved from Edinburgh for the countryside way of life, but she now faces unbelievable challenges that she never thought she would have to face when she moved to a rural community.

Constituents write to me daily about other barriers that they face. Recent examples include concerns about the future of community hospitals in the Borders and the removal of a key bus service route through St Boswells. Unfortunately, every such barrier makes it harder to keep people in, or attract them to, rural communities.

However, depopulation is not caused by one issue alone, and it will not be resolved by one action alone; rural depopulation needs to be tackled in the round. It is about creating an environment in which young people and families have access to the services that they deserve; it is about ensuring that public transport in rural areas is accessible; it is about providing reliable digital connectivity; it is about ensuring that rural schools are well resourced; it is about creating employability opportunities for young people, so that they are given every opportunity to stay; and, crucially, it is also about ensuring that there are enough homes for people who want to live in a rural community.

Sadly, as such key issues continue to go unaddressed, a loud and clear message is being sent from a central belt-focused Government to people in those communities. I am thinking of, for example, the message from all the MSPs who voted to close 50 per cent of Scottish seas to our fishermen, which impacted on their jobs and livelihoods and was described by the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation as “catastrophic”.

I will briefly highlight why it is important to tackle rural depopulation. Rural communities sit at the heart of Scotland’s culture and traditions. Last week, I had the honour of celebrating the Hawick common riding, and Alasdair Allan MSP will be delighted to know that, later this week, I will be attending Selkirk’s common riding. Those events are fantastic displays of our history and culture, and they show the pride that Borderers have in their communities. Unfortunately, such traditions will die out if people continue to be pushed away from our rural towns and villages.

The SNP has presided over that decline in our rural communities. At every turn, it hinders families and young people who want to choose rural. So far, a piecemeal policy approach and inadequate funding have done little to address the alarming situation that rural communities face. More needs to be done, and I look forward to hearing from the minister on that matter.

18:02  

I welcome the opportunity to speak in this important debate, and I congratulate Tim Eagle on securing it.

Many members have outlined well the challenges created by rural depopulation. Dumfries and Galloway and the Scottish Borders, in my South Scotland region, are no exceptions. I will therefore focus my brief remarks on those areas and on some of the actions that constituents tell me must be taken if we are to support our rural communities to have a thriving future.

Falling populations, a lack of affordable housing and high fuel costs are among the challenges faced by D and G and the Borders. Indeed, researchers at Scotland’s Rural College detailed the problems in a new study released during the latter part of last year. Transport poverty was identified as an issue, with people depending on their own vehicles due to the absence of affordable alternatives. The study, which was carried out as part of wider work for the Scottish Government, found increased costs of homes and fuel, particularly across Dumfries and Galloway. For example, researchers said that there had been

“a ... clear trend of significant house price inflation from 2004 to 2021”,

with average property prices increasing by as much as 102 per cent, compared with 71 per cent in urban areas.

The study also suggested:

“High proportions of second and vacant homes”

were

“a ... persistent ... challenge in ... remote mainland ... locations.”

That is a particular challenge that I hear from constituents daily. Places in D and G such as the coastal Rockcliffe and the Isle of Whithorn have many registered second homes, which stops local people being able to purchase or even rent property and contributes to the decline of local amenities such as shops, GP practices and local schools. In some locations, more than a third of the housing stock is taken up with second homes. Although I understand that the Government is taking action on second homes, I ask the minister to ensure that local authorities take the steps that are available to them to address the issue.

One area that continues to be brought up as something that will help address rural depopulation and recruit people into sectors such as the NHS is the availability of local amenities. Recently, Dr Stephen McCabe, the clinical director of primary care in NHS Highland, wrote an interesting blog with suggestions on how to address rural depopulation challenges, and he specifically addressed the issue of rural depopulation in relation to general practice, which he highlighted as a global issue. I did a quick search just as everybody was starting to speak today, and it is clear that rural areas across the world are going through demographic transition, with declining population being witnessed across the globe. Japan has many islands, as Scotland does, and it, too, is experiencing depopulation.

The ODI, which is a think tank, has published online reports and briefing papers on population decline and what to do about it. It therefore isnae just a Scottish issue; there are so many reasons why it is happening, and we can learn from them.

Will the member take an intervention?

I really do not have the time, Mr Carson. I am sorry, but I know that you are on your feet next.

Dr McCabe said that one of the issues that we need to think about is “amenity”, which other members have also already spoken about. In that respect, he mentions

“good broadband ... fast and reliable transport ... affordable housing”

and

“easy access to a wide variety of activities both for themselves and their children.”

He also talks about the need for “work/life balance” to allow people to work in a more manageable way or not to work so many hours, and the need for shops, cafes and other places where they can hang out. Finally, he says:

“Unless ... we can provide similar levels of amenity in our rural areas we will struggle to fill our”

healthcare

“vacancies.”

I ask the minister to reflect on those suggestions and look to work with other ministers on ensuring that our planning system, for example, works towards that aim.

I welcome the debate. I know that there has been a lot of interest in it, and I am keen to ensure that Dumfries and Galloway and the Scottish Borders receive equal attention when addressing rural depopulation.

18:06  

I thank Tim Eagle for bringing this important debate to the chamber. He is spot on: living in a picture-postcard town or village surrounded by glorious countryside and wildlife can be idyllic, particularly in Scotland’s most beautiful constituency of Galloway and West Dumfries—bonnie Galloway.

It is little wonder that many people dream of having that tranquillity and slow pace while enjoying the strong community spirit. However, the stark reality is that despite that strong spirit and beautiful surroundings, communities across rural Scotland are dying because of the Scottish National Party Government’s failure to understand rural Scotland. Its mismanagement of rural policy is leading to falling populations, a serious lack of affordable housing, poor public transport, high fuel costs and now school closures. Those are just some of the reasons why the younger generations, who should be the future of those communities, are moving away when they get the chance.

The Scottish Government has known about that decline for years and has simply sat on its hands, only recently announcing a plan to help communities that are facing population decline. Why did it take so long? The SNP has been in power for 17 woeful years. The south-west of Scotland was once referred to as “the forgotten corner”. Now, the widely held view is that, after 17 years, it has turned into “the ignored corner”. That is what I was going to ask Emma Harper about.

A succession of First Ministers, including the current First Minister, John Swinney, have all promised major investment in transport infrastructure and improvements to Stranraer town centre. However, time after time, the Scottish Government has failed miserably to deliver. For proof of its utter negligence, we need only look at the most recent budget, in which Shona Robison announced a series of budget cuts to South of Scotland Enterprise, agriculture, forestry, marine and new affordable housing funding.

Does this SNP Government recognise rural Scotland at all? People who are struggling right now to live and remain in rural areas are having serious doubts about that. Unless you live in the central belt, you are an afterthought when it comes to the Scottish Government. How on earth is a cash-strapped South of Scotland Enterprise going to be able to support policies to attract and retain good jobs and future opportunities for young people? Economic development is critical to rural Scotland.

I understand why Finlay Carson wants to make points about the problems of living in rural Scotland, and I understand many of them.

However, can he reassure me, as somebody who represents the Western Isles, that he will not continually and lazily try to claim that the SNP Government is a central belt party when the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister represent rural and island constituencies?

I can give you the time back, Mr Carson.

Will the member take an intervention?

I will also take an intervention from Emma Harper.

I really appreciate Alasdair Allan’s point. Half of the ministerial team are fae rural constituencies, so members cannot constantly go on about the SNP just being about the central belt, because that is not the case.

I think that that says it all. Although half of the Government is from those constituencies, it is still failing. That is the view not just of members on the Conservative benches but of rural communities across Scotland, particularly in the south of Scotland. Budgets for the enterprise company have been cut and housing budgets have been slashed. New homes are not being built to the extent that they should be. Why are housing targets not based on the needs of rural communities rather than on the arbitrary percentage of the wholly inadequate national targets?

The same applies to healthcare services. Patients in my constituency unnecessarily have to travel miles and miles for appointments and minor treatments for straightforward procedures. If only there was a clear plan, those services could be delivered at the four mothballed cottage hospitals.

People want and demand health and maternity services closer to home, and rightly so. I believe that it is time for an urgent review of the NHS Scotland resource allocation committee formula so that sufficient funding is given to rural areas to ensure equality of access to health and social services.

Our public transport service is dwindling away or being dramatically reduced, while the Scottish Government bleats on about free bus travel for under-22s. The young people in my area are asking the question, “What’s a bus?” In contrast, thanks to the UK Government, things are moving forward with the A75. Specialists have been appointed to start work on the design of the bypasses around Springholm and Crocketford, which will undoubtedly provide a significant boost to the local economy, given the £9 billion-worth of goods that travel along the A75 yearly.

I agree with the Scottish Land & Estates briefing. We need a Government that will adequately consider and take measures to understand rural communities, or rural depopulation will continue at a worrying rate. Central belt policy makers need to understand rural Scotland.

I hope that the minister will give my constituents and other rural communities a commitment to a rural-proofing policy to reverse depopulation.

I call Kaukab Stewart to respond to the debate. You have around seven minutes, minister.

18:12  

I am delighted that there was so much interest in the debate. Members across the chamber have raised many challenges and have talked about the complexities of our rural communities, as well as celebrating their wonderful nature and the opportunities that exist in such communities.

I thank Tim Eagle for raising what is an important issue. I know that he has taken an extensive interest in it by asking several questions on the matter over his time in the Parliament.

We all realise and have mentioned that the challenges are complex and multifaceted, with clear links to many areas of Government delivery, but my colleagues on the ministerial population task force and I are committed to responding to those challenges.

The rural lens toolkit will provide a systematic approach to the consideration of the opportunities and challenges of rural communities, and that will be used across all Scottish Government portfolios, because the responsibility to address those issues lies across the portfolios.

The Scottish Government has been in power for 17 years. Does it really take a toolkit to tell us what island and rural communities know, which is that services such as health, ferries, other transport links and some of our schools need action? They have needed action for a long time, and it does not need a toolkit to tell us that.

I can give you the time back, minister.

I thank Mr Halcro Johnston for making those points. As I have said, the challenges are complex, and the Scottish Government is continuing to address those issues.

The sustainability of rural and island communities is vitally important and, of course, we want to see a Scotland in which everyone can play their full part, with empowered communities shaping their individual and collective futures.

Many members have already referred to the publication of our first action plan, which we are implementing in order to address depopulation. The plan aligns with our wider approach to supporting rural and island Scotland, including the national islands plan. We recognise that Scotland is not alone in facing those demographic challenges and that we can learn from other countries. Our population strategy, published in 2021, was the first of its type in the UK. It sets out our commitment, as an outward-looking nation, to engage with other European nations to share learning and best practice on demographic policy approaches.

After the debate, I will be attending a welcome reception at the European population conference, which is taking place in Edinburgh this weekend, to share expertise on demographics, migration, depopulation and more. Harnessing the input of experts from our expert advisory group on migration and population is key to ensuring that we develop the most robust policy responses that we can. That expert group has given us clear evidence and an analysis that shows that Scotland faces a distinct demographic challenge, in part because of the historical legacy of out-migration, which particularly impacts our rural and island communities. We know that the current immigration system, which is reserved to the UK Government, is not effective in dealing with the challenges that Scotland faces.

Will the member take an intervention?

I am going to crack on.

In 2022, the Parliament sent a concrete message on the urgent need for practical, workable migration solutions that would deliver for Scotland’s communities in the form of a proposal for a rural visa pilot. Sadly, the current UK Government rejected that proposal, despite its own independent advisors in the Migration Advisory Committee saying that the proposal is

“sensible and clear in both scale and deliverability”.

The committee stated that it is in the UK Government’s interest to trial the scheme. There is also the fact that, without inward migration, Scotland’s population, which is already falling, would be made worse by the effects of a hard Brexit and the ending of freedom of movement.

I was going to make the point that the minister has touched on. There is a large amount of amount of migration into the UK, but Scotland is not attracting migrants. Another issue that has been raised by a number of people in the debate is that, even if we were encouraging people to come here, we do not have the accommodation and the homes have not been built in our rural communities. That is a devolved issue that the Scottish Government has failed on. If the minister disagrees with that, why do we have a housing emergency?

I will give the minister the time back.

I will be coming to housing.

Will the member take an intervention?

Do I have time, Presiding Officer?

I can give you additional time, minister.

I was going to make a similar point. We can encourage inward migration, but the issues that are forcing our young people out of rural communities mean that we cannot house new people in those communities.

The member makes a valid point. I will try to address it in the time that I have.

Jamie Halcro Johnston referred to the powers that we do have. The Scottish Government is committed to addressing the challenge of depopulation through collaborative working with partners—whether they are academic, international, regional, local or community-based—to deliver innovative and sustainable solutions. The publication of the addressing depopulation action plan—or ADAP—represents the meeting of a key commitment of the population task force. It harnesses a broad evidence base and builds on deep engagement with partners to establish a strategic, delivery-focused approach. It recognises that there are no quick fixes to depopulation within affected communities, but it seeks to maximise the tools that we have at our disposal.

I see that I am running out of time, so I will try to address some of the points that have been raised. Tim Eagle raised a point about depopulation funding. We are committed to working with COSLA to deliver solutions in a sustainable way, but we also know that smaller, targeted funding can have an outsized effect. It is important to listen to communities. I restate that this is the first phase of the work on the pathfinder projects, which we will be able to learn from. My ears are open and, as we take the lessons, I am open to looking at solutions going forward. Rhoda Grant mentioned housing—

Will the member take an intervention on that point?

I am going to run out of time, so I will carry on.

The rural and islands housing action plan makes commitments on affordable homes. Other members have mentioned the issue of second homes, which can provide a benefit but are also a challenge. I remind members of the power that we gave to local authorities to charge a premium of up to 100 per cent on second homes. That is now in place and local authorities have been able to use that power from 1 April 2024.

A few members mentioned schools. There are commitments on the £2 billion learning estate investment programme, and members can look into that for further information. I am speeding through things because of the time. Presiding Officer, I think that I might have tested your patience for as long as I can so I will sum up.

Members have raised serious issues. I want them to know that this Government takes its responsibilities within the scope of devolved matters very seriously, and it is working to enforce, proceed and accelerate the action plan as much as possible. My door is open—there will be points that I have not had a chance to address—and I encourage members to come to speak to me to get more detail on those matters.

Thank you very much, minister. That concludes the debate and I close this meeting of Parliament.

Meeting closed at 18:21.