Official Report 1004KB pdf
The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-14427, in the name of Jeremy Balfour, on reversal of £10 million funding for changing places toilets. The debate will be concluded without any question being put. I invite members who wish to participate to press their request-to-speak buttons.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament expresses its shock that the Scottish Government has, it understands, gone back on its pledge to invest £10 million to increase the number of Changing Places toilets across Scotland; notes that this promise was made originally in 2021 by the former First Minister as part of the 2021-22 Programme for Government, and was repeated numerous times by multiple ministers over the following years; understands that Changing Places toilets are not a luxury facility, but are vital for many profoundly disabled people to take part in society, including those in the Lothian region; considers that this is the latest in a long list of examples of the Scottish Government not taking seriously the needs of disabled people and allowing them to pay the price of what it sees as Scottish National Party (SNP) financial mismanagement; echoes the disappointment that has been expressed by many individuals and organisations in response to the announcement, and notes the calls for the Scottish Government to honour the promise that it made to disabled people.
17:31
I am often asked which achievement I am most proud of from my time in Parliament. When I look back over my time here, one of the things that comes to mind is the Planning (Scotland) Act 2019, as we managed to secure a provision that any new developments over a certain size must include a changing places toilet. That amendment guaranteed that any new public space must be accessible to all, and gave people with profound disabilities the comfort of being able to toilet with dignity. It is regrettable, however, that some developments are dragging their feet on fulfilling that requirement.
For example, I recently visited the Edinburgh futures institute at Quartermile, which was set up by the University of Edinburgh. Despite significant engagement, it still has no plans to install a changing places toilet. I hope that it will see the error of its stance, and very quickly prioritise making the facility accessible to all.
Changing places toilets are not a luxury or a nice optional extra—they are an absolute necessity in order for many people to be able to participate in society. They bring not only help to the disabled but economic benefit to those that have such facilities in place. They are often the difference between a disabled person being able to go out or having to stay in.
I highlight amazing organisations such as PAMIS—Promoting a More Inclusive Society—which works tirelessly to promote changing places and to inform the public about the benefits and whereabouts of those facilities. Without that organisation, I do not think that we would have made nearly as much progress as we have done.
Turning to the motion, I am sure that members will be aware of a promise that was made by the then First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, in 2021. A £10 million fund specifically for the installation of changing places was to be created, following the lead of the United Kingdom Government. That money would make a real difference to the lives of disabled people, as has happened in England, where all the money has already been distributed. Unfortunately, however, no money has materialised in Scotland—it has been flushed away.
After three years of leading disabled people on, the Scottish Government finally admitted what many had suspected for years—that it had no intention of distributing the money. For three years, organisations, developers, charities and others were waiting for the much-needed funds that would allow them to put in changing places—and all of a sudden, that money was gone.
It is well known that the Scottish Government is very good at making big announcements and very poor at delivery. Even for the Scottish Government, however, this was a devastating betrayal. We should make no mistake about it—we are not talking about a lot of money. It represents a tiny fraction of the budget, but it would make a huge difference to disabled people across Scotland. However, the Scottish National Party Government took the decision to punish disabled people. Yesterday, in the human rights debate, we heard about what a good record the Government has, but of all the cuts that it could have made, it decided that disabled people had had it too good for too long.
However, there was then a glimpse of hope. At a recent meeting of the cross-party group on changing places toilets, we invited the Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport to come and explain to MSPs, the third sector and other stakeholders and individuals why it had cut the funding, and what the SNP was going to do to make that disgrace right. We were encouraged that Maree Todd told us that we should wait for the budget, and that the Government was going to commit money for changing places.
We were perhaps not expecting that the whole £10 million would be reinstated, but we thought that some money would be better than nothing. However, I listened very carefully to the statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government last week; I scanned the budget documents; and I asked the Scottish Parliament information centre to do the research, and none of us could find a single mention of changing places toilets in the budget.
I accept that I, or SPICe, may have missed something. I would therefore like the minister to intervene at this point to tell members, and the disability stakeholders to whom she has spoken in recent weeks, what money is earmarked in this year’s budget.
I can confirm to members that there is money coming to changing places this year. I will provide a full summary in my summing-up speech. I would say that much of what Jeremy Balfour has said is incorrect and misleading, but I will let him continue.
I start by thanking the minister, and I look forward to seeing that money, but the problem is that we have heard that money promised before, and then it has been taken away.
Will the minister, in summing up, also tell us when that money will be available, when it will be spent and what the criteria will be? Most importantly, can she tell us that it will not go to organisations that do not need the money, but instead to the third sector, which desperately needs it? The third sector, and disabled people, are listening. They are tired of being left behind, and tired of not knowing whether or not they can go to the toilet with dignity in public. Most of all, they are tired of being promised the world and being delivered nothing.
I look forward to hearing the minister point out any inaccuracy in what I have said in the last six minutes and 58 seconds, because I believe that every word that I have said is factually true. The Government must make this right—get the funding, get it distributed and stand up for disabled people. That is what we want, and we want it now.
We move to the open debate.
17:38
I thank Jeremy Balfour for bringing the debate to the chamber. Although I disagree with most of the points in his motion, we both agree that changing places facilities are not a luxury but a lifeline for those in our society who rely on them.
This year, I have been engaging with parents of children in Inverclyde who have a range of additional support needs, and with many constituents who have physical disabilities. Both groups have highlighted how the lack of changing places toilets in Inverclyde is a barrier to their being able to leave their homes. For families, it means travelling to Glasgow or other local authority areas that have more changing places facilities on their patches.
Mr McMillan is making a fine speech, and I do not intend to make this intervention political; I am genuinely seeking information from him as a member of the Government party. The minister alluded to something about money being available for changing places in this financial year. Does Mr McMillan, as a member of the Government party, know how much money that is? There are speeches to follow, so it would be ever so helpful, as we make our speeches, to know exactly what the minister is talking about.
As Mr Kerr will know, I am a member of the governing party, but I am not a member of the Government. The minister has already stated that she will provide a full reply to the question that was posed earlier, and I am sure that Mr Kerr will be delighted to hear that reply.
For disabled adults, the lack of accessible toilets can result in social isolation. Ultimately, it may mean both that money is being lost to Inverclyde’s economy and that people and families are missing out on enjoying their local community. There is nothing wrong with going to different parts of the country to enjoy what they have to offer, but in my local authority area—I will not comment on other areas—we have three changing places toilets: at Craigend Resource Centre in the east end of Greenock; at the Greenock health and care centre; and at Tesco at Port Glasgow. The latter two are not places that people would go to for some leisure and recreation.
I therefore agree with Jeremy Balfour that changing places toilets are vital to enable many people to take part in society. They are crucial, and it is a disgrace that, on too many occasions, streetscapes, retail areas and community spaces are not designed with disabled people in mind. That was one of the reasons why, only two months ago, I held a round-table meeting with all the transport providers who deal with Inverclyde, as well as the local authority and Amey. That meeting came about because one of my constituents raised a wide variety of issues, and the issue of changing places toilets very much came up in the discussion. It also came up in the meetings that I had previously, alongside SNP councillors, with family members from the additional support needs network in Inverclyde.
I do not want to be too political—I listened to what Mr Balfour had to say, and to the non-political question from Mr Kerr. Nonetheless, it is a bit rich for the Conservatives to suggest that the SNP has failed disabled people due to financial mismanagement. To be frank, disabled people in Scotland will receive support that they would not receive if they lived in other parts of the UK—free prescriptions and free personal care are just a couple of examples. On benefits, Social Security Scotland has adopted a fairer, more person-centred approach to welfare.
I welcome what the member has said up to now. However, is he, too, disappointed that the £10 million that was previously in the Scottish Government’s budget was taken away? Fewer toilets were able to be built because that money was taken away and used for other things.
Mr Balfour will be aware of the Scottish Government’s financial situation this year. There were reductions in a variety of funds, as has been well documented and spoken about in the chamber.
I wish to make Mr Balfour aware that, in September, I wrote to the Scottish Government with regard to the changing places fund. The Minister for Public Health and Women’s Health, Jenni Minto, replied to me, indicating that the first tranche of investments were going to take place in early 2025. That situation may change—we will find out very shortly—but that was the most up-to-date information that I had as of September this year.
I am conscious of time, Deputy Presiding Officer, so I will conclude. I want to see more changing places toilets provided across Scotland, including in my constituency of Greenock and Inverclyde. I want more of them to be made available in leisure facilities in particular, because I want people to be able to enjoy their communities; I do not want them to feel as if they have to be forced to go somewhere else for a day out with their kids. People should be allowed to have a day out in their own community so that they can enjoy what it has to offer. That is why this particular fund is hugely important for social cohesion, and in ensuring that people can enjoy what they have on their doorstep.
17:44
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this evening’s debate, and I thank my colleague Jeremy Balfour for bringing it to the chamber.
To be clear, changing places facilities should not be considered to be luxury facilities. They allow certain people with disabilities to access public spaces in a way that they simply would not have been able to do without them. Changing places toilets should be commonplace in communities across the country. As things stand, however, that is far from being the case.
The consistent closure of council-run facilities across many parts of Scotland, including in my region, has meant that many locations no longer have changing places facilities at all. That is very much the case in my Mid Scotland and Fife region. The announcement of £10 million of funding for changing places toilets in the 2021 programme for government was very much welcomed at the time. That same pledge was repeated by several different ministers at different times through a number of announcements. We heard members across the Parliament challenge the Government to allocate the money where it was needed. However, three years later, the funding has still not been allocated.
Just a few months ago, the Parliament learned that the money for changing places facilities was to be reprofiled. We know that “reprofiled” means that something will not necessarily happen according to the timescales that were given. That means that the measures might not happen for the foreseeable future. The Scottish Government has stated that it is still committed to introducing the funding during this parliamentary session. At this stage, however, it is looking very likely that the funding will be kicked further down the road, so the measures might not happen until after the 2026 elections.
The news from the Scottish Government is that it appears to be backtracking on its commitment, which is deeply concerning to disabled individuals and charities, which had supported and been part of the Scottish Government’s processes. Jeremy Balfour’s motion describes that as
“the latest in a long list of examples of the Scottish Government not taking seriously the needs of disabled people”.
The 2021 programme for government discussed creating a new disability equality plan, which would be created in partnership with disabled people. Three years later, several disabled people’s organisations and individuals have made it quite clear that that still requires to be fulfilled. The organisations have been working with the Government for more than 20 months on creating a plan that, they hope, would empower disabled people in every part of Scotland. Now, however, they have been left disappointed, with organisations saying that the process has seemingly collapsed, and all the ambitions that they had no longer seem to be moving forward.
Organisations such as Disability Equality Scotland, the Glasgow Disability Alliance and Inclusion Scotland have all participated, and they are all feeling let down. Their members have been led down the garden path by the Scottish Government, which failed to engage properly with those individuals and organisations. They have called on the Scottish Government to take “urgent and bold action” on the issue. I certainly hope that the Government is able to listen, and I look forward to hearing what the minister has to say when she sums up the debate.
The debate has been able to shine a light on some of the problems that disabled people in Scotland face. It is now time for the Scottish Government to work with disabled people and their organisations, to deliver the equality plan that disabled people deserve and to ensure that the funding for changing places facilities is delivered in full. Disabled people deserve nothing less.
17:48
As convener of the cross-party group on changing places toilets, I welcome another opportunity to discuss this important issue in the chamber. Indeed, it is our second debate this year. I thank my colleague Jeremy Balfour for securing the debate and for his on-going efforts, alongside those of colleagues across the Parliament, to hold the Government to account on the issue, in particular on its failure to advance the promises that it made on support for changing places toilets.
It was good to hear Jeremy Balfour speak about his pride in the achievement made in the previous parliamentary session through changes to planning legislation. I put on record my thanks to Mary Fee, my predecessor, who was involved in those efforts, and to Angela Dulley, the campaigner who is the secretary of the cross-party group, for her efforts in that regard, too. Indeed, I thank everyone in the cross-party group, who all campaign on the issue and call for better support for changing places toilets across Scotland.
I have already referenced the debate that we had on the issue at the start of January, when we discussed the delays to the establishment and opening of the fund. In that debate, and in the CPG meeting that took place the next day, the minister said that the Scottish Government would make the £10 million changing places toilet fund available across the financial years 2024-25 and 2025-26. However, we know that that promise did not play out. Instead of that fund opening in 2024-25, the autumn budget revision took it away. At the time, the minister said that that was a necessary decision for financial reasons during the SNP’s emergency budget revisions. However, she also said that preparatory work on the fund was continuing.
Although I am pleased that, since that autumn budget revision, the minister has told the CPG that the draft version of the fund criteria is almost complete, I am concerned that information that has been obtained under freedom of information requests shows that, prior to the budget revisions, the minister had been in only one meeting on the fund and that her officials had been at only one other.
Put together, all of that does not give us a lot of confidence that the issue is a priority for the minister. I would be keen to hear much more in her summing up about what has been done not only to secure the money in the forthcoming budget but to ensure that the fund can open quickly, with well-established criteria.
It will be shameful if the commitment is not fulfilled. It would be a shame not only for all the people who rely on changing places toilets but for the wider community of Scotland. Scotland is an attractive place that people want to visit, and we want to attract people regardless of their needs and the support that they require. As well as the basic fundamental human rights that we have heard about, we see the economic benefit that changing places toilets can make to our communities.
Every time that the cross-party group meets, we hear about the need for changing places toilets and the gaps that exist in Scotland. As Jeremy Balfour and others have done, I commend the work of PAMIS and others who support efforts to ensure that we have a clear picture of where changing places toilets are and where there is a need for further ones.
My next point has already been made: there is a record of failure for disabled people in Scotland on the issue that we are discussing. I am seriously concerned about some of the decisions that have been taken. In the year since we previously debated the issue, disabled people’s organisations have withdrawn support for the disability equality plan; the promises to provide health checks for individuals who have a learning disability have been completely unfulfilled, despite £4 million being spent on that; and the proposed learning disabilities, autism and neurodivergence bill and the proposed human rights bill have been shelved for at least this session of Parliament. Furthermore, the publication timetable for the strategy on young disabled people’s transitions to adulthood has been extended once again. Therefore, I do not think that it is accurate for SNP members to say that there are not serious issues with support for disabled people. It is clear that that is becoming something of a pattern.
The minister might think that I am being harsh on her and on the Government, but, if she was sat where I am, I think that she would be just as vocal about a Government that has repeatedly broken promises that it made years ago.
I will listen openly, as I always do, to the minister’s winding-up remarks, and I hope that, within them, there is a cast-iron guarantee that the fund will open next year. It is not just me who is listening; it is all the members of the cross-party group and all the campaigners and disabled people across Scotland who need these facilities.
17:54
I start by saying to Stuart McMillan, who referenced free prescriptions, that 96 per cent of all prescriptions in England are free, so it is likely that all the people he was talking about are in receipt of free prescriptions. That is a very important point in terms of verification and fact checking.
I thank Jeremy Balfour for bringing the motion to the chamber, and I pay tribute to him for his campaigning work on behalf of not just people who need changing places toilets but, more widely, the disabled community in Scotland. He is a real champion—a terrier—for that group, and he has rightly raised issues in the chamber tonight that should be treated with great soberness by the minister.
However, I am really confused about the intervention that the minister made on Jeremy Balfour, because she seemed to indicate that there is money but would not say how much there is. I feel as though we might have wasted our time and breath on all these speeches, because she might be about to announce that there is £10 million in this year’s budget. If so, I wish that she had said that, so that we could have spent our time congratulating the Government on finally fulfilling the commitment that was made so long ago. However, at this point in time, we do not know whether that is the case, and we are left waiting to hear her speech. Accordingly—you will be pleased to hear, Presiding Officer—I will wrap up my speech pretty rapidly, because we want to hear what the Government is going to say. I hope that the minister will not do what she has done tonight—almost teasing us—again. Alexander Stewart said that the Government has been leading us down the garden path on this issue for a number of financial years, and I would not like to think that the minister has done that tonight.
Jeremy Balfour talked of his proudest moment as a parliamentarian. One of my humblest moments during my time as a parliamentarian, which occurred early in my experience as an elected member, was when Jamie Muir and his team at Blair Drummond safari park asked me to be present for the official opening of their changing places toilet. Also present at that event were people whom PAMIS had brought along: people with various needs that meant that changing places toilets were genuinely transformative facilities. I can honestly say, looking back at all the things that I have done as an elected member of the House of Commons and the Scottish Parliament, that I do not think that I will ever forget the faces of the people at that opening and the joy that they felt at being able to visit the safari park and not suffer the indignity of having to find a relatively clean space on the floor where a member of their family could look after them in an intimate way. I know that a number of members here today will have seen people experiencing the joy that people feel when they are able to visit somewhere without suffering that indignity.
We are talking about the sense of dignity and the sense of independence that changing places toilets create. I think of two quotes in particular when I think of those two aspects. The first is about dignity:
“Using a changing places toilet means I don’t have to lie on the floor in a public toilet. It makes me feel valued and respected. It’s the difference between staying at home and being able to go out and enjoy life.”
The second quote concerns the sense of independence and self-reliance:
“It’s the only reason we can go on holiday or visit certain places. Without changing places it just wouldn’t be possible. Having access to these facilities means fewer compromises and more opportunities for spontaneity. When I know there’s a changing places toilet nearby, I don’t have to plan every outing so carefully. It gives us freedom.”
I salute PAMIS for its 32 years of successful campaigning, and I salute my friend Jeremy Balfour for his campaigning.
I will now sit down and hear the minister tell us what she should have said when she intervened on Jeremy Balfour earlier, which is that there is money in the budget this year for changing places toilets.
17:59
I have to say that I was somewhat taken aback by the tone of Jeremy Balfour’s motion, because I have recently spent time at the CPG reassuring members, disabled people and organisations that represent them that there would be money in the budget this year. So, to answer Mr Kerr’s point, there were a number of inaccuracies and misleading points in Mr Balfour’s speech, and it will take me some time to correct those; I could not do it in a simple intervention. I am going to take my time in this speech to bring clarity to the situation.
First, I confirm to Parliament that the Scottish Government has not, as Mr Balfour’s motion suggests, gone back on its pledge to invest in changing places toilets. For context, on that particular point, the commitment was to do that during the current parliamentary session, and there are still two budgets left in that session.
I absolutely agree with Mr Balfour and those who have made similar points in today’s debate that changing places toilets are vital facilities that enable many profoundly disabled people to take part in society. They are also important for their families and carers.
As I have highlighted to the Parliament previously, the funding will build on our previous work on the changing places toilets agenda. That includes the introduction of the Scottish building regulation legislation in 2019, which many have mentioned, and which requires the provision of changing places toilets in larger new public buildings. There was also the subsequent publication of our changing places toilet planning guide. I am happy to ask my officials to pick up on the point that Mr Balfour raised about the University of Edinburgh building.
Since 2012, the number of changing places toilets in Scotland has risen from 25 to 269. There has been an increase of almost 30 per cent since 2019, when we introduced the new Scottish building regulations legislation, which required the provision of changing places toilets in larger new buildings to which the public has access.
Scotland’s geography can make coverage challenging—I am a Highland MSP and I absolutely acknowledge that point—and I will seek to address that in the funding criteria. However, we should celebrate the progress that we have made to date and the fact that Scotland has the highest proportion of changing places toilets per head of population in the whole of the UK.
That increase is, of course, testament to the crucial role of committed individuals and local communities in raising funding for and delivering many of those facilities during the past decade or so. Support from local bodies, particularly from local authorities, has been and will continue to be central to driving the agenda forward. We have worked closely with PAMIS and it is great to hear the positive reports about that organisation. It has been a fantastic source of expertise on changing places toilets, providing advice and support right across Scotland.
There is, of course, much more that we can do. It has taken longer than we anticipated to launch the fund, and I absolutely agree that that is a source of disappointment and frustration for many people, including me. As everyone is aware, the Parliament has faced considerable budget challenges in the past few years, and that has resulted in some difficult decisions across all Scottish Government budgets. However, I can confirm to the Parliament today that funding will be provided over the next two years to support further investment in changing places toilets.
The Scottish Government’s draft budget was published a week ago today, and it is subject to the usual parliamentary scrutiny and process. However, we made the decision to increase the draft mental health budget for the next financial year so that we can build on the improvements that we have made. I remind members that the Planning (Scotland) Act 2019, which introduced the building regulations that so many have celebrated tonight, was achieved by the Parliament working together in partnership, as we will all need to do to pass the budget and ensure that the provisions in it come to life.
I am conscious that your time is running out. Can you tell us—
Please speak through the chair.
I am sorry. Can the minister tell Parliament how much that figure is and whether it will be spent by the third sector in this financial year?
As the member would expect, there is still some underpinning detail to work through. I expect to be in a position in the new year to give detail about the amount of funding that we propose to provide for changing places toilets and will be happy to update parliamentary committees and the changing places CPG in writing as soon as possible. That funding will be profiled over two years and we are working with stakeholders to understand the level of demand and the stage that projects are at, because that information will inform the profile of the funding over the two years. As I updated the CPG, work is under way to develop the fund criteria to fit the plans and processes. I cannot confirm when those criteria will be available, but I will be very happy to keep Parliament and the CPG involved.
More generally, the Scottish Government has done a great deal—
Will the minister give way?
I would like to finish my points, because we are a little short of time.
More generally, the Scottish Government has done a great deal to support disabled people and to mitigate the impacts of decisions that were made by the previous UK Government. This year, we committed a record £6.1 billion for expenditure on benefits—which is £1.1 billion more than the UK Government gives us for social security—including £300 million of additional investment in adult disability payments. We reopened the independent living fund, helping up to 1,000 more disabled people to access the support that they need to live more independently, and our budget for 2025-26 will continue expanding that fund. We introduced the pension-age disability payment, which is worth between £290 and £434 a month to people of state pension age who are disabled. In response to Alexander Stewart’s point, we are investing an additional £2 million to enhance the disability equality plan, in recognition of the work that is needed to improve people’s lives.
All that demonstrates that this Government retains a strong commitment to accessibility, inclusion and human rights, in spite of the very challenging times we find ourselves in. Given what we have seen in the past few years, particularly from the previous UK Government, I am not sure that that is something that all my Conservative colleagues could say with hand on heart.
In developing and delivering the changing places toilet fund, I am keen to work in partnership with members from all parties, including with the cross-party group on changing places toilets. This is one issue where we absolutely have cross-parliamentary support, as is demonstrated by today’s motion, so let us get on with it.
That concludes the debate and I close this meeting of Parliament.
Meeting closed at 18:08.Previous
Decision Time