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Chamber and committees

Plenary, 11 Dec 2003

Meeting date: Thursday, December 11, 2003


Contents


Question Time


SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE


Biodiversity Action Plan

1. Shiona Baird (North East Scotland) (Green):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether Scottish Natural Heritage is monitoring the status of species listed as a priority for action under the United Kingdom biodiversity action plan generally or only in sites of special scientific interest. (S2O-936)

The Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Allan Wilson):

Scottish Natural Heritage is responsible for implementing and monitoring Scotland's contribution to the UK's biodiversity action plan, and is therefore involved in the monitoring of all priority species found in Scotland, irrespective of the type of site on which those species are found.

Shiona Baird:

Does the minister agree that such monitoring throughout the countryside will be absolutely necessary as part of the implementation of the Scottish biodiversity strategy, not least so that he is able to report to the Parliament on progress, as will be required? Does he further agree that the strategy should identify the priority species and habitats so as to focus that monitoring, and other efforts, on species and habitats of greatest conservation importance? Does he agree that a framework for that approach should be outlined in the Nature Conservation (Scotland) Bill?

Allan Wilson:

Yes, yes and yes. The member knows that I share her interest and that of her colleagues in those matters. She is probably aware of the publication last week in England of a biodiversity strategy, which drew some media attention. A contract for the analysis of comparable data in Scotland is being let this week. I know of the member's interest in the corn bunting, for example. Progress on such priority species will be made early in the new year. I am happy to give the member the assurances that she seeks in that regard.

Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD):

I am pleased to hear the minister mention the corn bunting. He will understand that, in a constituency such as mine, it is the way in which the crofters and farmers have managed their land that leads to species surviving, or indeed prospering. Will he assure me that the agri-environment funding stream, which underpins those activities, will be looked upon favourably, and that it will be continued in future?

Allan Wilson:

I am happy to give the member the assurances that he seeks. He and I share many constituency interests in the protection and preservation of species under threat. Obviously, agri-environment support for the preservation of those species is fundamental to their continued survival. We must bring land managers—whether they be crofters, landowners, farmers or whoever—on board if we are to protect and preserve those species.


Postwatch Scotland (Meetings)

To ask the Scottish Executive when it last met Postwatch Scotland to discuss the impact of its work on communities. (S2O-941)

The Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Allan Wilson):

The Scottish Executive has had no formal meetings with Postwatch Scotland but Dr Tom Begg, the chairman of Postwatch Scotland, serves on the Communities Scotland advisory board, which is overseeing the operation of the fund to develop post offices in deprived urban areas.

Alex Johnstone:

Does the minister share the concern expressed by Postwatch Scotland that Post Office Ltd does not seem to have a vision for the optimal future Scottish urban post office network? Does he, like me and local councillor Bruce Mackie, share Postwatch Scotland's view that it remains to be convinced that Barnhill post office in Broughty Ferry is an appropriate target for closure?

Allan Wilson:

That has not been my experience of Post Office Ltd, either at a constituency or a ministerial level. Post Office Ltd shares the UK Government's approach to providing bigger, better and brighter post offices, not least for the customer base that it serves, many of whom happen to be among the most disadvantaged and deprived people in the country.

Service delivery is what is important, and £230 million of public money has gone into providing better service delivery for that customer base. If there is an issue about the standards or the accountability of the service in Broughty Ferry, that is primarily a matter for the local MP, the Department of Trade and Industry and the UK minister. If there are community issues, I know that my colleague, Margaret Curran, would be happy to discuss them with any MSP.

Question 3 has been withdrawn.


Animal Transport Regulations

To ask the Scottish Executive what the impact of the proposed European Union animal transport regulations will be on farming and crofting in the Highlands and Islands. (S2O-944)

The Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Allan Wilson):

[Interruption.] Yes, it is me again.

As the proposals are still under negotiation, the impact is uncertain. However, I am well aware of the implications for livestock farmers and my officials in the Council working group are striving for a package that will protect the welfare of animals and safeguard the livestock industry in the Highlands and Islands. I know that that is a concern that George Lyon and I share.

George Lyon:

The minister will be aware of the recent study carried out by the Scottish Agricultural College, which estimates that, if the current proposals go through, millions of pounds could be lost to businesses in the Highlands and Islands. Does he agree that the real problem is the transnational transport of animals, especially in southern European countries? Given that the United Kingdom has recently updated its own transport regulations to address specific animal welfare concerns, surely the European proposals should concentrate on tightening up and improving regulations on animal transport across the boundaries of each of the countries in Europe.

Hear, hear!

Allan Wilson:

I see that Phil Gallie was inspired by George Lyon's words. I agree with George Lyon and Phil Gallie that the problems that have been outlined originate in southern European states. I have read the report to which George Lyon referred and the Scottish Executive shares many of its conclusions. He will be interested to learn—or he may already know—that the Italian presidency has proposed a number of other possibilities, three of which would help to satisfy Scottish interests. Those interests are, of course, opposed by certain other member states in the European Union, so our officials are currently engaged in a process to persuade those other member states of the priority of Scottish interests in that matter, to support the Italian presidency's proposals.

Alex Fergusson (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (Con):

Does the minister agree that existing European legislation on animal transportation is more than adequate? As has been alluded to, the real problem lies with the policing of existing legislation, particularly on the other side of the channel. Will he therefore undertake to push for an extension in the exemptions for short-haul journeys, in recognition of the fact that few problems relate to journeys within the UK, as the best way forward on the issue?

Allan Wilson:

I agree with both those points. In fact, the proposals from the Italian presidency cover some of Alex Fergusson's points. We would particularly favour a maximum total journey time of 22 hours, with a short rest of 1 hour in the middle third of that period. I think that that would help to alleviate any prospective problems that the Scottish industry might face from those measures.

Mr Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green):

Does the minister agree that the real solution to animal welfare problems caused by transportation over long distances, and the best way to reduce haulier costs, would be to provide for more local slaughtering facilities, and thereby to move meat around, rather than live animals? Will he explain what he is doing to encourage more rural abattoirs, particularly in the remoter parts of Scotland?

Allan Wilson:

I agree in part with Mark Ruskell. There are agricultural support schemes that facilitate that, particularly in the crofting counties and in more remote parts of Scotland. Unfortunately—or fortunately, from an industry perspective—there still has to be live transportation of livestock across Europe, so it is important that we put in place measures to safeguard the health and welfare of animals while they are in transit.


Central Heating Scheme

To ask the Scottish Executive what projection it has of the number of heating systems to be installed up to the end of this year through the Eaga Partnership scheme. (S2O-921)

I am sorry to steal Allan Wilson's thunder.

By the end of 2003-04, the Eaga Partnership will have installed more than 21,000 central heating systems in the private sector.

Mr Welsh:

This week, I have seen at first hand the excellent work that is done by Energy Action Scotland and the Eaga Partnership. I encourage the minister to maximise the support for those organisations. Will she guarantee that the welcome over-80s scheme, to be introduced next year, will in no way reduce or detract from the available budgets for existing energy action schemes?

Ms Curran:

I am happy to give Andrew Welsh the assurance that he seeks. We support the important work of Energy Action Scotland; it has made a significant contribution to tackling fuel poverty in Scotland and we want to continue to work with it. The work of the Eaga Partnership is also important in tackling fuel poverty through delivering the scheme. During the recent debate, I made a commitment to raise members' issues with Eaga and we will continue to do so. I will also raise the points that Andrew Welsh made this afternoon.

The extension of the central heating programme to the over-80s is a significant development, but that development should not undermine existing programmes. The central heating programme has been very successful and we will ensure that that success continues.

Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):

Is the minister aware that in remote areas the Eaga Partnership will install central heating systems only when it can do so in a certain number of homes at the same time? That problem was raised with me during warm homes week. As that policy causes long delays in remote areas and islands, will she, as a matter of urgency, consider what can be done to speed up the delivery of central heating systems?

Ms Curran:

I am happy to pursue that matter on Maureen Macmillan's behalf. During the recent debate, I assured members that I would pursue a number of issues that were raised about the Eaga Partnership. I will speak to Maureen Macmillan about the matter.

Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab):

Does the minister share my concern that Scottish Gas has inappropriately sold central heating systems to older people in my community who would have qualified for grants? Will she consider how the central heating programme can be promoted, not just to the people in the community who will benefit from it, but to health visitors and other professionals who work with older people?

Ms Curran:

Great effort has been put into ensuring that the scheme has been appropriately promoted and that people—in particular elderly people who often do not have access to information through the traditional means—have proper information about the central heating programme. We take every opportunity to maximise the promotion of the scheme.

I would be very concerned if other schemes were being inappropriately promoted to elderly people. I believe that all the key agencies are aware of the central heating programme and they should not attempt to undermine it in any way; I will pursue that.

George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD):

The minister is aware of concerns that I have raised in the past and, indeed, she has taken action to improve the delivery of the central heating programme in my constituency. However, one big problem is that there are only two contractors to deliver the programme for the whole of Argyll and Bute, which is a big area. One contractor has a record of very poor workmanship and has failed properly to install new central heating systems. Will she look closely at what is happening in my constituency and consider how the problem might be addressed? Will she deal with the matter, which is causing great distress to a number of my constituents?

Ms Curran:

George Lyon has raised issues with me about practices in that part of the world, as he said, and I have pursued the matter to some satisfaction. I believe that we have achieved a significant improvement.

Poor workmanship is unacceptable in Scotland in any service at any time and we should take appropriate action to ensure that we tackle the problem. When sums of public money have been committed and the resources put in place to deliver a service, we expect high standards of delivery. I give George Lyon a commitment that I am more than happy to pursue the matter.


Draft Nuclear Sites and Radioactive Substances Bill

6. Mark Ballard (Lothians) (Green):

To ask the Scottish Executive whether it has responded to the consultation exercise by the Department of Trade and Industry on the draft Nuclear Sites and Radioactive Substances Bill and whether copies of any response will be placed in the Scottish Parliament information centre. (S2O-934)

The Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Allan Wilson):

It was not necessary for the Scottish Executive formally to respond to that consultation exercise. In accordance with the memorandum of understanding, we are in regular contact with the United Kingdom Government on a wide range of issues, which include the matters of mutual interest that were the subject of the consultation to which the member referred. The relevant provisions have now been incorporated into the Energy Bill that was announced in the Queen's Speech.

Mark Ballard:

As the minister said, the Energy Bill is currently being debated in the House of Lords; I think that it is getting its second reading today. The bill contains the provisions that were laid out in the draft Nuclear Sites and Radioactive Substances Bill to set up a nuclear decommissioning authority. A number of provisions in the Energy Bill cover functions devolved to the Parliament and there is significant concern, particularly about the lack of overriding environmental objectives for the new authority. What plans does the Executive have for on-going consultation with the Parliament on those issues, both now and as the nuclear decommissioning authority produces its draft strategies and action plans?

Allan Wilson:

This question is probably a good advertisement for themed questioning, which I know is proposed in certain quarters, because we could debate the Energy Bill's contents for a long time. As the member said, the Energy Bill is wide-ranging and complex and contains proposals relating to the nuclear industry as well as provisions to allow us to expand consent for offshore energy, and on Britain-wide electricity trading arrangements. Given that it is so complex, my colleague Lewis Macdonald has written to the conveners of the relevant committees apologising for our failure to lodge a Sewel motion to allow us to consider some of these matters in the Parliament. It would be inappropriate for me to add to that before the committees have had a chance to consider the matter.

Roseanna Cunningham (Perth) (SNP):

Does the minister agree that the consultation process underlines the fact that the clean-up required after a nuclear installation has served its time is so complex and costly that further nuclear power stations should be ruled out for the foreseeable future?

Allan Wilson:

No. The UK Government and the Scottish Executive are concerned about the lack of progress from the nuclear industry on decommissioning and the clean-up of sites, to which the member referred. We are determined to get to grips with the nuclear legacy to ensure that clean-ups are carried out safely, securely, cost-effectively and in such a way that protects the environment, for the benefit of current and future generations. That should not preclude our consideration of any industry proposal for any new build.


Single Transferable Vote

To ask the Scottish Executive what study it has made of the use of the single transferable vote in the recent Northern Ireland Assembly elections and what lessons can be learned for future Scottish elections. (S2O-945)

We have established an independent working group to consider the implementation of the single transferable vote in Scotland. That group is considering the experience of STV in other countries, including Northern Ireland.

Phil Gallie:

I welcome the study in Northern Ireland. Is the minister aware of the huge number of spoiled ballots recorded in the Northern Ireland election? Does he recognise the confusion that seems to exist among the electorate, given the fact that the system has been used in the past? Will he take that on board and does he acknowledge the dissatisfaction registered in Northern Ireland? Does he agree that simplicity in electoral reform is the key?

Tavish Scott:

Although I agree with Mr Gallie, there is a lot of simplicity about making a direct correlation between Northern Ireland politics and Scottish politics. It is important to reflect on why STV was introduced in Northern Ireland: the political situation there is different and the desire is to reflect the balance of the community in any outcome. Mr Gallie might also be aware that the turnout in Northern Ireland was 63 per cent, which was higher than the turnout in the Scottish elections in May. That shows more interest—perhaps worryingly—in the Northern Irish elections that have just taken place. The STV working group will consider these matters; that is why ministers have established it. Perhaps Mr Gallie will reflect on the fact that he is here because of proportional representation and if he wishes to be a convert to that cause we will welcome him.

Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):

Does the minister agree that it is vital that elections are conducted in a way that reduces voter confusion to a minimum? Does he agree with the unanimous view of the Society for Returning Officers in Scotland that if STV is introduced for local government elections, Scottish Parliament and council elections should not be held on the same day?

Tavish Scott:

I understand the member's point and the points that have been made in evidence to the Local Government and Transport Committee in recent weeks. Ministers are aware of the issues but, at this moment, we have no plans to change the proposals to have the elections on the same day.

Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab):

I am sure that the minister is aware that the chair of the STV working group advised the Local Government and Transport Committee this week that he did not expect to provide his final report to ministers until September next year. Does the minister share my concern that that could mean that final consideration of the bill could take place before members of this Parliament are able to see a copy of that report?

Tavish Scott:

Mr Muldoon raises an important point. I advise the chamber that the STV working group has been asked to report to ministers on issues relating to the practical implementation of STV by—as Mr Muldoon says—September next year. However, the group's chairman, David Green, will make an interim report to ministers in January, before ministers give evidence to Mr Muldoon's committee later in the year. That will be done to deal with the very point that Mr Muldoon raises.

Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD):

Does the minister agree that evidence from Northern Ireland shows that the number of spoiled votes varies greatly from election to election? The use of STV is not the sole reason for people spoiling their ballot papers. Will he agree to examine fully next year's local elections in southern Ireland, which are being conducted using STV and electronic voting?

Tavish Scott:

Mr Smith makes important points about electronic voting and about considering the experience of other countries. That is why we have the STV working group, which is considering and taking advice on these matters. Executive officials working on local government issues are considering these matters closely and will be studying practical examples so as to inform our considerations.


Transport Links (Ayrshire)

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress is being made in improving transport links in Ayrshire. (S2O-923)

The Minister for Transport (Nicol Stephen):

I visited Ayrshire on Monday and announced that we would be starting the major upgrade of the Whitletts roundabout in Ayr next autumn and proceeding with a study into a bypass for Maybole. That comes on top of a series of major investments that will benefit Ayrshire significantly—such as the M77 project and the three-towns bypass. Those investments will total well over £100 million.

Irene Oldfather:

I very much welcome the progress to date. Does the minister agree that improving transport infrastructure is crucial to encouraging economic development, especially in Ayrshire? Does he accept that upgrading the A737 through Kilwinning and my colleague Allan Wilson's constituency in Dalry would sensibly complement the work that is already being done on the three-towns bypass, thus better connecting the north of Ayrshire to Glasgow airport and providing further tourism and employment opportunities for the people of Ayrshire?

Nicol Stephen:

I agree. We have current commitments in relation to the A737. It is estimated that the Roadhead roundabout will cost £1.2 million, and the Head Street junction improvement scheme on the Beith bypass is programmed for the current financial year, with an estimated cost of £600,000. That will involve the construction of a roundabout. We are making commitments to the area and I am aware of other campaigns—for example, for a Dalry bypass.

I would like other investments to be made in Irene Oldfather's constituency over the coming years, but we have made a significant start. Investment is at a level that has not been seen in Ayrshire for many years. I believe that it will have a major impact on the communities and economy of Ayrshire, which impact is badly needed.


Shop Workers (Christmas Day Working)

To ask the Scottish Executive what representations it will make to Her Majesty's Government on the impact of shop workers being required to work on Christmas day. (S2O-911)

The Minister for Justice (Cathy Jamieson):

The Executive has discussed with the UK Government representations from the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers on this issue. Whereas employment matters are reserved to the UK Government, policy on shop trading hours in Scotland is devolved. I am aware that the member has intimated her intention to introduce a bill to prevent large stores from trading on Christmas day and new year's day.

Karen Whitefield:

Does the minister agree that Scotland's hard-working retail staff serve our needs 363 days of the year and should be able to look forward to celebrating Christmas and new year's day with their friends and family? Is she aware of the growing support for my proposed bill from members of the public, trade unions and—most important—Scotland's most widely read newspaper, the Daily Record?

Cathy Jamieson:

I am certainly aware of the importance of work-life balance. I am aware that the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers has said that it is concerned that employees of large stores in Scotland might be required to work on Christmas day and new year's day and about the impact of that on family life. Further, I am aware of the views of the Scottish Retail Consortium, which advises that its members do not open on Christmas day and have no plans to do so.

We will consider the matter in greater detail. Consultation will be an important part of that.


Teachers' Pay and Conditions

To ask the Scottish Executive what stage the implementation of the McCrone agreement on teachers' pay and conditions has reached and whether it envisages any difficulties arising. (S2O-943)

The implementation of the agreement is on track and I expect it to remain so.

Fiona Hyslop:

Perhaps we can have regular and more full explanations at a later date. The minister will be aware that the McCrone agreement includes options for a retirement wind-down for teachers. Does he agree that implementation of the pension provisions in the Westminster green paper that could forcibly increase teachers' pension ages from 60 to 65 could undermine the hard work of all those who ensured that the McCrone agreement was established and implemented? Does he also agree that that is a matter of serious concern and that we must protect the McCrone agreement from being interfered with by the pension provisions in the green paper?

Peter Peacock:

As I am sure Fiona Hyslop knows, there is a long way to go on the questions that are being raised elsewhere about pension arrangements. No decisions have been made in that regard, but the green paper forms part of the consideration in a Scottish and a UK context of how to move forward. It would be unfortunate if we raised unnecessary anxieties about that at this stage.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con):

Is the minister aware that the Headteachers Association of Scotland, which expressed concerns about the progress of the McCrone agreement, has recently withdrawn from the teachers' panel of the Scottish negotiating committee for teachers because it thought that it was being marginalised? Can he confirm that the SNCT will take into account the views of all groups that will be affected by the McCrone agreement on a fair and objective basis?

Peter Peacock:

I have noted the decision of the Headteachers Association of Scotland and of the Association of Head Teachers in Scotland, which has also recently withdrawn from the SNCT. Although I personally regret those decisions, they have been taken freely by those organisations. We want head teachers to be part of the consideration of teachers' pay, the management of schools and the associated negotiations. We have pledged to try to bring that about, in partnership with the other members of the SNCT.


Corporate Culpable Homicide

To ask the Scottish Executive what steps it is taking to introduce a change to the law in relation to corporate culpable homicide. (S2O-938)

We have only recently received the appeal judgment in the Transco case and the Lord Advocate and I will need to study it in detail before reaching any decision on whether new legislation is required.

Karen Gillon:

In the written determination that was issued last week in the case of Transco v the Lord Advocate, the court clearly states that, although penalties exist in health and safety legislation, if this Parliament and the courts are to be able to prosecute for corporate culpable homicide, we will have to legislate.

Given the strong feelings in my constituency following the deaths of the Findlay family, will the minister agree to meet me to discuss how best we can take forward the determination and the changes that are required as a result of it?

Cathy Jamieson:

I assure the member that I will meet her. Members will recall that, on a number of occasions in this chamber, I have indicated that, if the law needs to be changed, we will change it.

It is important to remember that proceedings against Transco are still live. The original indictment contained an alternative charge under the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974, which carries the same financial penalty as culpable homicide. We should remember that when discussing this case.


M74 Extension (Public Inquiry)

To ask the Scottish Executive what the total cost of the public inquiry into the M74 extension will be. (S2O-937)

The total cost of the public inquiry into the M74 completion will depend on the length and complexity of the inquiry and will not be known until the inquiry is completed.

Patrick Harvie:

I am sure that the cost will be significant to the people of Scotland. Does the minister agree that, if the inquiry is to represent value for money, it must be a fair and impartial hearing? Will he assure me that, contrary to the First Minister's statement in the Parliament last week, the Executive has not yet committed itself to building Europe's biggest urban motorway project, and that, if the inquiry recommends against it, it will not be built?

Nicol Stephen:

The final decision rests with the Scottish ministers, and we will take into consideration all the evidence that is submitted to the inquiry. Patrick Harvie is correct that that is the purpose of the inquiry. In due course, we will receive from the inquiry a balanced report and it will then be for me, as Minister for Transport, along with my ministerial colleagues, to decide how to proceed. However, we have made it clear that the project would bring significant benefits to Glasgow and to west-central Scotland in general, and that remains the Executive's position.


Maternity Care

To ask the Scottish Executive how it will ensure that women from the most deprived sections of society have improved access to specialist maternity care. (S2O-955)

The Minister for Health and Community Care (Malcolm Chisholm):

One of the key themes of both "A Framework for maternity services in Scotland" and the subsequent report of the expert group on acute maternity services—EGAMS—is that maternity services should be community based as far as possible and targeted to address specific needs, including those of women from the most deprived sections of society. Implementation by national health service boards will be monitored through a performance assessment framework for maternity services that is currently being developed.

Carolyn Leckie:

I thank the minister for that predictable answer, but will he tell me how poorer women, who are more likely to need, for example, detailed ultrasound scanning and Doppler ultrasound, will have greater access if they have to travel further at an emotionally stressful time without any help for relatives to travel with them, as only routine scanning will be available locally? Further to that, does he consider that an unplanned delivery in the back of an ambulance is the sort of access that is acceptable in the 21st century?

Malcolm Chisholm:

The matter is a subject of great debate throughout Scotland, and the principle that I mentioned in my original answer remains true: as some of the services become more specialist and concentrated in specialist centres, other services will be delivered more routinely in the community. Therefore, there is a two-way movement, which is true of many service reorganisations.

At the end of the day, the key issues for women are, I am sure, clinical safety and the quality of care, and all the evidence, especially on specialist treatments for maternity services, is that those will be delivered more safely and more effectively in specialist centres where there are consultants who deal with a reasonably large number of women each year. I know that the debate is controversial and difficult, but people will understand that, as long as as much care as possible is delivered in local communities—and community-led midwife units are being created in some local communities—the specialist services are sometimes better delivered in larger concentrations.

Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):

I am glad to hear the minister mention specialist services. He will be aware of the inaccurate brochure that Greater Glasgow NHS Board has sent out regarding the maternity services review in Glasgow, which claims that a 1999 report by the British Association of Paediatric Surgeons says that it is safe to transport seriously ill new-born babies, when, in fact that report opposes the transport of neo-natals. Will the minister act now and instruct Greater Glasgow NHS Board to withdraw that damaging and inaccurate leaflet and will he instigate an immediate inquiry into the process of the consultation?

Malcolm Chisholm:

There are clearly major issues about neo-natal transport around the review, although there is a pan-Scotland neo-natal intensive-care transport service. I believe that Sandra White is referring to two leaflets, and it appears that she cited one rather than the other. All the details of the evidence are of great interest to me, and I want to be fully aware of both pieces of evidence—I am sure that people in Glasgow will equally want to be aware of them. However, as Sandra White is referring to two leaflets and the argument is complex, it is not for me to give an immediate, specific ruling on that question. I am sure—



Order.

I am sure that Sandra White will raise the issue with Greater Glasgow NHS Board in the appropriate way.


Renfrewshire Schools <br />(Public-private Partnership Project)

To ask the Scottish Executive what provisions have been made for public scrutiny of the public-private partnership schools project in Renfrewshire. (S2O-951)

One of the conditions for the funding by the Scottish Executive of schools public-private partnership projects is that the final business case be made publicly available, having due regard to issues of commercial confidentiality.

Frances Curran:

I ask the minister—and I do wonder myself—how it is possible to square the circle in making a commitment to local democracy but then decide to run major public services through secret contracts. Is he in the least bit concerned that the workers who have just been sold to private companies, and whose jobs and pensions will be affected, do not even have access to the bill of sale?

Peter Peacock:

One—and only one—of the flaws of the Scottish Socialist Party's analysis of public-private partnerships is that its members somehow pretend that it is only through PPPs that the private sector has become involved in delivering public services. Who built all our roads, all our hospitals, all our schools and all our other public buildings during the last century? It was the private sector—and the private sector made vast profits in so doing. The difference between those days and these days is that, today, the private sector is required to take a share of the risk of delivering those projects. If they are not delivered adequately, the private sector must make good the difference. In the past, the public sector did that. That is part of the reason why we are driving forward with public-private partnerships and why we are delivering more than £140 million of new investment in schools in Renfrewshire. That ought to be welcomed, not condemned.

Mr Bruce McFee (West of Scotland) (SNP):

Is the minister aware that elected members on Renfrewshire Council are allowed to gain sight of PPP documents only if they first sign a confidentiality agreement, which covers

"all information of whatever nature (including commercial and Personal Data) and in whatever form (written, oral, visual or electronic and including all copies) relating to the Council and ANY of its services",

and that, under paragraph 7 of that agreement, the obligations on the signatory

"shall be continuing and, in particular, shall survive the evaluation of competing bids, and contract completion"?

Will the minister explain how such arrangements help to achieve transparency or improve accountability in local authorities?

Peter Peacock:

Local authorities must follow due process and the public rules that apply to their contracts, and Renfrewshire Council must satisfy itself that it has done so under its own terms and rules. If he seeks more information, I suggest that the member writes to the council, which will be bound by the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002 in the same way as is any other public body in Scotland.

Frankly, what we have heard from the SNP is just a distraction. It is simply opposed to the delivery of the new resources that we want to have in place in the area's schools, and its members will find any excuse to undermine that.


Area Tourist Boards

To ask the Scottish Executive when it expects to publish its review of area tourist boards. (S2O-927)

I call Jim Wallace.

The Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport (Mr Frank McAveety):

Thank you for the elevation, Presiding Officer.

Since the summer, a group of ministers has been examining the needs of Scottish tourism and the public expenditure that is devoted to it. We are considering the outcome of the area tourist board review in the context of the wider issues, and we hope that the group's conclusions will be announced soon.

Alasdair Morgan:

I thank the minister for that fairly predictable answer. He will remember that, in February, his predecessor stated in the chamber:

"an announcement will be made as soon as possible after the new Parliament has convened."—[Official Report, 13 February 2003; c 18176.]

Six months later, the chair of the Scottish Tourism Forum said:

"We need decisions on area tourist boards … no-one can get on with the job in hand with continuing uncertainty."

Does not Scotland's premier industry deserve more haste and expedition from the Executive?

Mr McAveety:

For the first time, a group of Cabinet ministers is considering Scottish tourism across the whole area of policy in Scotland. We want to connect the area tourist board review to a broader strategy, which deals with the existing level of resources, addresses how we can improve both public sector and private sector contributions to those resources, and explores ways in which to raise levels of skills and training.

I agree with Alasdair Morgan that we have an opportunity to continue to grow Scottish tourism. We have had a very good year and we want to ensure that the sector develops fully. The key discussions that ministers are having are intended to ensure that that development takes place. We want to get that right, and I would rather spend time on getting it right and accurate. I said in my initial response—for those who were not listening earlier—that we would respond soon.


Debt Recovery (Bank Arrestment)

To ask the Scottish Executive what plans it has for the reform of bank arrestment as a means of recovering debt. (S2O-933)

We will bring forward proposals for reform of the law of diligence, including proposals for the arrestment of funds in bank and other accounts, in draft legislation that is to be consulted on in this parliamentary year.

Eleanor Scott:

We are very close to Christmas and the minister must be aware of local authorities' practice of increasing their use of bank arrestments in the week before Christmas, in the knowledge that many people will have been paid Christmas bonuses or will have received their January pay early. According to citizens advice bureaux, that practice occurs every year, and bureaux throughout Scotland experience a rise in the number of people who need advice because their bank account has been frozen, which leaves families distraught and penniless immediately before Christmas. Given the severe impact that the practice has on people, and its frequently untimely use, does he agree that reform is needed urgently? Will he assure us that such reform will proceed without delay and will be fully consulted on?

Mr Wallace:

I do not concede that the picture that Eleanor Scott has painted is accurate. However, we consulted on the arrestment of funds in the bank accounts of vulnerable people and the potential that exists for the arrestment of earnings when we held our consultation on a range of issues relating to personal diligence. We intend to introduce legislation and, as my colleague Hugh Henry, the Deputy Minister for Justice, confirmed earlier this year, we want to reform diligence law to produce a solution that protects from arrestment subsistence levels of money. That is our objective. The consultation in which we engaged produced a variety of opinions on how that might be done. We are engaged in further consultation with stakeholders and we hope that we will be able to unveil positive proposals on dealing with the problem when we publish our draft legislation.