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Welcome back, everybody. Under item 5, we will consider kinship care. This morning, we are taking evidence from the Minister for Children and Young People and discussing issues arising from our recent evidence sessions on kinship care. The committee heard evidence from stakeholder organisations on 24 February and had an informal session with kinship carers on 21 March.
I welcome to the meeting Clare Haughey, the Minister for Children and Young People. The minister is joined by Scottish Government officials from the improving lives for people with care experience unit, who are in the room with us: Gwen Davidson is unit head, and Louisa Brown is family care team leader.
I invite the minister to make an opening statement.
Good morning. I am grateful to the committee for inviting me to give evidence and I welcome the opportunity to discuss some of the issues raised by kinship carers on 21 March and by stakeholders at the session on 24 February.
Kinship care has evolved over many decades. What started as informal and ambiguous care for children has progressed to become more structured, resulting in recognition in statute.
I know that it can be complex—not only for kinship families, but for those who support them. We recognise and value the role that kinship carers play in providing secure, stable and nurturing homes for children and young people when they are no longer able to live with their birth parents.
10:15We recently had kinship care week, which was an opportunity for us to celebrate the difference that kinship care is making to the lives of our children and young people. During kinship care week, I had the opportunity to meet kinship carers and families in order to hear about their experiences and the challenges that they face.
I know that the committee has heard from kinship carers directly and from the organisations working with them that there is still more to be done in relation to help and financial assistance. That is why the Scottish Government is fully committed to providing additional investment and support.
The “Keeping the promise to our children, young people and families” implementation plan, which was published yesterday, sets out the actions that we will take to keep the Promise by 2030. In the plan, we reaffirm our intention to introduce a Scottish recommended allowance for kinship and foster carers in order to end the postcode lottery and ensure consistency across all 32 local authorities. We have resumed our discussions with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities following the pandemic, and I hope to be in a position to say more about the funding for the allowance and when it will be available soon.
As part of our ambition to keep the Promise and upscale family support services, we will have the whole family wellbeing fund, totalling £500 million, which will give families across Scotland access to the help that they need at the right time. In 2022-23, £50 million from the fund will be available.
On 24 March, we published our second tackling child poverty delivery plan—“Best Start, Bright Futures: tackling child poverty delivery plan 2022 to 2026”—which sets out the transformational action that we will take with partners to tackle child poverty. In 2022-23, that work will be supported by investment of almost £113 million, on top of funding already allocated to on-going programmes.
However, although important, funding is only one part of how we plan to improve support for kinship carers. Along with partners, we established the kinship care collaborative in 2020 in order to deliver improvements in support for kinship carers, children and professionals working with kinship families across Scotland.
The priorities set by the collaborative include reviewing the current kinship care legislation and guidance—which was an area of focus for the committee’s roundtable discussion—identifying resources and gaps across the piece, and improving consistency of provision across Scotland. Despite a slow start due to the pandemic, the work of the collaborative now continues to gather momentum, and I look forward to receiving a range of recommendations from it in due course.
I welcome the committee’s interest in kinship care and the opportunity that it has given me to answer its questions.
Thank you very much, minister. We will move to questions from members. We have several themes this morning. The first theme is around kinship care and reform of children’s care services.
Good morning, minister. In the evidence session with kinship carers last week, their wish to have a more consistent approach towards how kinship care is defined came through very strongly. Some had one child in one category and one child in another. They told us that they wanted one clear definition: that children in their care were looked after and could therefore receive the same support as other care-experienced children.
Will the Scottish Government consider a clearer and more consistent approach to the definition of those in kinship care, whether through legislation or otherwise?
As I said in my opening statement, we accept that it is a very complex landscape. No kinship care arrangement is really the same as another. Some can be for very short periods of time; for example, a grandparent might look after a child because their mother or father is in hospital for a short period of time. Other arrangements, however, are for much longer periods.
The terms “formal kinship” and “informal kinship” refer to the legal status of a child or young person who is living with their relatives or friends. The kinship care collaborative is focusing on that area as part of its work.
A change in legislation or the introduction of legislation will not necessarily equate to good practice. There must be consistency in the interpretation of the guidance and the legislation. We are working hard to ensure that there is good practice and that it is aligned with national guidelines, and that there is emotional support for those carers, regardless of where they stay. Individual families have different requirements and children can go in and out of kinship care.
As we outlined yesterday in launching the keeping the Promise implementation plan, we need to provide person-centred support and services that fit around the individual and the family, and that is what the Scottish Government is doing. We are working closely with and funding the kinship care advice service Scotland, which I believe made a submission to the committee on its work. As part of that work, it is developing professional support and expanding good practice and learning for social work services right across the country.
I put on record my thanks to the kinship carers who gave evidence to us. I think that all of us who were there were deeply moved by what we heard.
I have two questions to follow up on Emma Roddick’s question. I appreciate that this is about good practice and how things work on the ground, but there is a lot of confusion around the definition of kinship care. For example, if kinship carers are defined in a certain way, they get certain benefits and help, and if they are defined in a different way, they get other benefits and face other issues. That is very confusing for those on the ground. Can further guidance be given, without legislating, in relation to the understanding of kinship care?
In our session last week, I was particularly struck by one individual who told us that two of their grandchildren were given to them because their son or daughter could not look after them. They had no follow up from social work for months—literally months—and when they did work to their house to adapt it to allow the children to stay, they were given no financial support. Such situations do not seem to be exceptional; they seem to happen a lot of the time, and part of that is down to definitions. I appreciate that that is how the system works in practice, but definitions matter, and I wonder whether further work could be done with COSLA on the support that is required. Certainly, it is inappropriate to leave a grandparent with children for several months without any follow-up at all.
I echo your sentiment about thanking the kinship carers who gave such valuable evidence to the committee. That session was for the committee, but it is important that, as minister with responsibility for the issue, I hear such evidence, too. I engage regularly with stakeholders to ensure that there is a flow of information and to hear their concerns. That is vital and it helps us to drive forward policy, practice and legislation.
I mentioned the kinship care collaborative. Part of the work that it is doing in priority group 1 is about establishing a clear and universal understanding of the definitions in the legislation. As much as it is easy to define what the legislation says, people need to understand it. That is an important part of the work that the collaborative is doing. It is also reviewing the kinship care legislation and guidance. It is doing absolutely key work and will provide recommendations to the Scottish Government on a way forward.
Do you have a timescale for that?
The work is going on at pace. I cannot give you a timescale for when it will be completed, but if it would be helpful to the committee, I could update you on the work that the kinship care collaborative is doing.
That would be very helpful, minister.
Good morning, minister. My question is more or less the same as the questions asked by my colleagues Jeremy Balfour and Emma Roddick. What can the Scottish Government do to give clarity to the definition of kinship care? Will the Government consider legislative change?
As you recognise, Mr Choudhury, I answered some of that in response to previous questions.
I agree that clarity is needed. It is one of the issues that kinship carers raise with me when I meet them. They ask about clarity, information and better communication from the professionals involved with their families and the support services that they have around them.
Clarity and communication are key. As I said in a previous answer, the kinship care collaborative is considering that. It has been identified as an area that needs work.
Our next theme is financial support for kinship carers. Our first question comes from Natalie Don, who joins us remotely.
Good morning, minister. I missed the first question so I apologise if this has been touched on already.
The committee heard evidence that there are major differences between different local authorities in relation to support for kinship care. I have constituents who have had issues with the transfer of cases between different local authorities. How can the Scottish Government aid that situation? What difficulties has the Government faced with implementing a national rate of allowance for kinship carers?
I touched on that earlier but I am happy to reiterate what I said about the work that the kinship care collaborative is doing. It has three priority work streams, one of which is to review the kinship care legislation and guidance and establish a clear and universal understanding of the definitions in the legislation. Priority group 2 is identifying resources and gaps, with a view to eliminating those gaps, and identifying good practice across the country. Priority group 3 is examining how to improve consistency of service and support across Scotland and ensure that kinship care is visible within our communities. I hope that that supplements some of the information that I gave earlier.
KCASS also plays a vital role in providing support for kinship carers. It not only provides emotional and peer support but helps them to access financial support and benefits. That is key and ensures that they are aware of the rights that they have as kinship carers.
You touched on the national rate of allowance for kinship carers. Yesterday, as we published the keeping the Promise implementation plan, we announced that we will set a recommended national amount for foster and kinship allowances. I hope that that will reassure some of the kinship carers who want that and have made representations to the Scottish Government and the committee.
Words matter and definitions matter. I am interested in your comment that you will recommend a level of payment that local authorities should make. Does “recommend” mean that they have to do it, or is it a suggestion? How far does the word go?
We will set a recommended national allowance.
So local authorities in Scotland will have to pay it; they will not have a choice. Is that correct?
We certainly would not prevent local authorities from paying more than the recommended amount.
But not less.
That is right.
Not only in kinship care but fostering, if the grandparents live in a different local authority area from the one that the child comes from, there have been issues with the fact that the local authority where the child comes from is responsible for the payment. Will that be examined? Is it a satisfactory way of working or would it be better for the local authority where the kinship carer lives to pick up the costs because it understands the child’s needs better? Is that being considered in the review, as well?
I will ask my official, Louisa Brown, to answer on some of that, because the legal complexities around where a child is looked after come into play.
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The position is set out in the guidance, but that is another area that has been open to interpretation. Some work has been done on the matter already through the collaborative, and a document on which Social Work Scotland and others have worked is now ready to be issued. That should help with the explanation of payments across local authorities; we can share it with the committee very soon.
I recognise that concerns have been raised about differing rates, and that some kinship carers felt that they were not getting the same rate as people in other parts of the country. I am sure that that issue has been raised with the committee. As I mentioned earlier, it is really important that we no longer have a postcode lottery.
We heard quite a lot about that issue, because there is quite a big variation in payments across the country. As my colleague Jeremy Balfour highlighted, that can involve top-up payments or things that happen because a local authority chooses to do them, or because certain aspects are subject to interpretation of the guidance. The work that the collaborative is going to do in helping to shape how that guidance can be changed and updated will be invaluable.
You hit the nail on the head there, convener, in that transparency is absolutely key, as we move forward. As you said, some local authorities have a set rate and additional rates for specific reasons, whereas others do not. Ensuring that the rates are transparent would offer a degree of reassurance to kinship carers and kinship families. I have certainly heard that in my conversations with them.
Thank you, minister. We move to a question from Pam Duncan-Glancy, who joins us remotely.
Thank you, minister, for outlining the position and for your answers so far.
Do you intend that the national allowance will be uprated in line with the cost of living and inflation in the same way that benefits have been?
We are still in negotiation with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, and there will be further announcements about the allowance in due course.
Thank you for that. Can you also set out what support would be in place for kinship carers and children in kinship care ahead of the roll-out of the £25 child payment in December? In particular, what can you say about the 150,000 children on bridging payments who will not get the increased amount?
The support that the Scottish Government gives to kinship carers is quite wide and varied, and we use all the powers that we have available to us to support households. The extra support for cost of living pressures targets people who are in need, and not only those who are in the benefit system, so that we help those who are struggling or just coping.
We firmly believe that kinship carers of non-looked-after children should be supported, as any parent would be, through the welfare system. They should be able to claim benefits such as child benefit and the child element of universal credit. To acknowledge that they are family units, and in recognition of the rising cost of living pressures, we have decided to further increase eight Scottish benefits by 6 per cent, moving on from the previous plan of uprating most by 3.1 per cent. I believe that the committee had a session this morning with the minister in charge of social security; I am sure that he gave you much more detailed information about that.
We absolutely recognise that there are cost of living pressures across the country, and we have to acknowledge the impact that reserved benefits have on families. There is the impact of the £20 cut in universal credit, and the impact on other reserved benefits such as pensions—many kinship carers are on pensions. It is noteworthy that the benefit cap exemption does not apply to all kinship carers, and we want that to be changed.
As you mentioned, from April, we will double the Scottish child payment to £20, which is a 100 per cent increase, and we are increasing child winter heating assistance by 6 per cent, which is above the original planned rate of 5 per cent. That will support 19,000 families of severely disabled children in paying their heating costs.
As I said, the Scottish Government is using all the powers that we have to support households.
Thank you for outlining the measures that the Government is taking, but I specifically asked about measures that you are not taking and what you will do about the 150,000 children who are getting bridging payments and who will not get the £20—the doubling of the Scottish child payment—in April. They will not get any increase until December this year. There are 177,000 children—[Inaudible.]—either, because of the claimant uptake. What can you do specifically for those children?
I am happy to write to the committee or to Ms Duncan-Glancy to outline what specifically is being done to support those children, if she is happy with that.
Is that okay with you, Pam?
If the minister is unable to say anything further at this time, I would be happy to hear about that in writing.
Thank you.
Before we move to the next set of questions, I have a question about an issue that was raised with us in our informal session with kinship carers. Some people care on an informal basis and are deemed to be ineligible for any support, so a national rate will perhaps not help them. They have asked us to look into that specific issue. Is there any way in which that will change?
The Scottish recommended allowance, which we discussed earlier, is for people who are currently in receipt of kinship and fostering caring allowances. The kinship care collaborative will look at the issue that you raise, and I have no doubt that it will come back to us with recommendations—which, of course, we will consider.
That is helpful. Thank you.
Our last theme is further supports for kinship care families. I think that the first question comes from Jeremy Balfour. No—I am getting a sign that his question has been answered, so we will go back to Pam Duncan-Glancy on that topic, to be followed by Marie McNair.
I have no further questions, convener.
All right. Everybody’s else’s questions have been answered, so we will have Marie McNair’s question.
Good morning, minister. I hope that this point has not been covered.
As you know, the 32 councils in Scotland all provide support to kinship carers. Because of the different approaches, there is variation in the support that is given, and that support is not just financial. Are you clear about what the core elements of the support should be? How is the Scottish Government engaging with councils to promote those elements?
That is a really important issue that is raised consistently with the Scottish Government and with me, when I meet kinship carers. The levels and types of support for kinship carers vary across the country, and some people feel that they do not get the support that they might get if they lived in another local authority area.
The national funding of the kinship care advice service for Scotland is important. The service gives national consistency and provides support, a helpline, assistance with peer support and access to legal and benefits advice. That consistency across the country is important.
It is important to recognise that, although levels and degrees of support vary among local authorities, some provide very good support. I believe that, when the committee took evidence from Perth and Kinross Council as part of its inquiry, that council detailed the support that it offers kinship carers and their families in its area. We should also remember that the professional groups that the kinship care advice service Scotland helps to convene and the training that they provide supports local authorities, social work managers and social workers on the ground in developing and learning from best practice that can be disseminated across Scotland.
Have I missed anything, Louisa?
The kinship care advice service is the main national support that is available, but its professional advisers group is also looking at sharing of best practice, training and so on. The issue is also being considered by the collaborative, which is looking at what more can be done to expand guidance to local authorities and to help with sharing best practice across the country. In short, it is another issue that is under consideration.
It is clear to us from the evidence that there is a great deal of informal support between kinship carers. What is the Scottish Government doing to support kinship carers in networking?
My experience of talking to kinship carers echoes what Marie McNair has just said with regard to the power and absolute value of peer support. It is important to note, though, that most local authorities are involved with kinship care support groups.
Some of the success of peer support groups in urban areas is down to the hard work and devotion of carers taking on responsibility for facilitating those groups. In some areas, geography has precluded group visibility and has given rise to transport issues, and difficulties with ensuring confidentiality in small communities has certainly been another issue that has been raised with me.
More recently, though, as we have moved into a more online and virtual world, many such groups have started to spring up across the country and were valued very much during lockdown, because they helped people to attend peer support group meetings that they might not have been able to attend if they had had to travel to them physically. As for social media, there is a range of closed Facebook groups in which people can access peer support, often on a 24/7 basis.
Thank you, minister. I have no more questions, convener.
I have one final question for you, minister. In our informal session with kinship carers, we heard that there is no provision for family leave for people who are in that situation and who can, indeed, find that their whole world is turned upside down overnight. That sort of thing depends very much on the good will of employers; we heard some good examples of where such provision has worked well and another example of there being no provision at all. Can the Scottish Government do anything to help with that and move things forward for those who find themselves in such situations?
As, I am sure, the committee is aware, policy on statutory leave such as parental leave remains reserved, but I am certainly happy to commit to writing to my Westminster counterpart to raise the issue and to ask them to explore it further. We all have an obligation to raise general awareness of kinship carers, the pressures that they face within their families at times and the responsibilities that they have, and we have an obligation to ensure that employers are aware of all that. I think that, in addition to supporting and celebrating kinship care families and giving them the recognition that they absolutely deserve, one of the key messages of kinship care week has been the need to raise public awareness to ensure that people understand what kinship care actually is.
Thank you very much. We have no further questions, minister, but we look forward to hearing updates on the work of the kinship care collaborative and on how the guidance is being shaped to ensure that learning and best practice are passported across all 32 local authorities and that the allowance is set at the level at which we want it to be set. Again, I thank you for coming along this morning.
That concludes the public part of this morning’s meeting. Because Parliament is in recess next week, the committee’s next meeting will be on Thursday 21 April. I invite members who are joining us remotely to leave the meeting and to join us on Teams.
10:45 Meeting continued in private until 11:19.Previous
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