Chamber and committees

That is encouraging—thank you.

I also want to ask about repatriation. The section of our written briefing that deals with that quotes from the Scottish Government:

“Where objects are proven to have been acquired unethically we strongly encourage that museums consider repatriation/rematriation of these objects.”

The phrase

“Where objects are proven to have been acquired unethically”

could mean everything or nothing, it seems to me. I wonder whether any further work needs to be done on defining what that means. Is the context of imperialism enough in itself to evidence unethical acquisition? Is a different, more specific or precise definition required, so that any decision not to consider taking that action can be challenged?

I will stay away from the issue of finances, because I think we should put those questions to the cabinet secretary when we see the budget next week and find out where this agenda sits within the expectation of a rising budget for culture.

I will talk about the political context. There have already been some comments about this not being a new piece of work, as there has been more than a decade of work building towards the point of having a major programme such as this. The political context has changed in that time and we have seen a worrying regrowth and mainstreaming of far-right ideas, with people being apologists for imperialism and worse. Have you detected a growing backlash against the agenda that you are trying to pursue? Is there reluctance or resistance within the sector, hostility from the media and social media or even public reaction to interpretations of existing collections?

Thank you, convener. I am grateful to you and the committee for making time for so many colleagues to address you. The fact that so many of us are here should be the first demonstration to you of the clear breadth of political support for greater urgency in this area.

I have seen very positive engagement by the campaigners—certainly those based in Glasgow, who are working with all political parties that represent the city. There is clear consensus that there needs to be fundamental change. In fact, the passing of the 2019 act demonstrates that there is already clear consensus on the need to move in the direction of franchising and to support local areas that choose to do so. The passing of the 2019 act was intended not only to make that possible but to make significant progress in that direction.

Even when the Parliament was considering that legislation, the committee that was doing so took a litany of evidence at stage 1 that the process, including the panel, would simply take too long. Many organisations—the Society of Chief Officers of Transportation in Scotland, Glasgow City Council, the Strathclyde Partnership for Transport, the Scottish Association for Public Transport and the Urban Transport Group—raised concerns about the timescale involved and the level of bureaucracy and lack of democratic accountability in that process.

Since the bill went through the Parliament and became an act, faster progress has been made elsewhere than is being made in Scotland, despite the political consensus that this should be the direction of travel. It is very clear that, if we are going to see communities such as the one that Neil Bibby described and, indeed, right across Scotland benefit from the required change, we need to accelerate the process. If that means the Scottish Government making relatively minor changes to primary legislation, that is what should happen.

Yes, during your tenure, convener.

More than a little.

Good morning, cabinet secretary. I will keep this part brief, but you have talked about negotiating positions on a veterinary and sanitary and phytosanitary agreement and youth mobility and whether there is room for an improved position between the UK and the EU. On our visit to Brussels, I picked up some views from the EU perspective to the effect that, as one person put it, “You will have to accept every dot and comma of regulatory alignment”, while from a UK perspective, I picked up the expectation that the Europeans will, of course, give us what we want, because it is in their interests to, really. Is it your view that the negotiating positions are naturally going to begin at those extremes and that the potential for something that is agreeable, even to a pro-Brexit UK Government, is simply a matter of political will?

Good morning to our witnesses. You might be aware that, later in this inquiry, we will have sessions specifically on mobility; in particular, the committee has an interest in youth mobility. I want to ask about the connection between that theme and the trade in services that we have been discussing; it has come up in a number of your answers.

For me, people’s freedom of movement and young people’s opportunity to move can be justified in its own terms due to the social and immediate benefit that people get from it. Should we also regard it as an economic investment for the future, to ensure that we have a generation of people coming up in every walk of life and business who have personal connections with people in other European countries, particularly in the fields in which they have studied, and who regard European countries as something more than a holiday destination?

If we do not restore that opportunity for the upcoming generation, what will be the impact of the loss of youth mobility, not just on trade and services at the moment but in the longer term? Regardless of whether the UK and the EU agree improvements in this area, is there anything more that the Scottish Government should be doing to maximise the opportunities in the current context for young people in Scotland to experience a connection with European countries and for young people in Europe to experience a connection with Scotland?

Many thanks. I wish we had time for a long exchange about the political points that you have made but we do not. I will move on to Professor Hall.

In that case, I want to ask about the Scottish Government’s policy of maximum alignment. Obviously, the extent to which alignment can be maximised is not absolute. We are going to see some level of divergence from both sides, including, in some instances, on matters that are devolved; however, in many matters that are not devolved, we might well see divergence happening on the UK side as well as on the European side.

You have set out, first, in your letter and, secondly, in your comments today, two key reasons for that policy of maximum alignment. One is to maintain high standards, and the other is to avoid the unnecessary creation of additional non-tariff trade barriers—that is, the sorts of issues that we have been discussing in the TCA inquiry.

Is there not, though, a third objective of the policy, something that will actually become more important over time? Again, some people will disagree with this, but a clear majority in this Parliament—and a clear majority of the public—recognise that Brexit was a mistake and support rejoining, whether that be in the context of Scotland or the context of the UK. It might be a long-term objective—it might not happen in this decade and, to be even more pessimistic, might not even happen in the next—but surely the longer there is some divergence, the more value there is in minimising it and maximising alignment as best we can, so that when a process of rejoining becomes politically possible, it is not more complicated than it needs to be.