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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 November 2024
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Displaying 1065 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 13 March 2024

Ross Greer

I hope that it will be very brief.

Megan, on the point about the revision to the code of practice, can you foresee a scenario in which that would address the issue sufficiently and mean that we would not need legislative change? Alternatively, is something more than changing, revising or improving the code of practice required?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 13 March 2024

Ross Greer

I will pick up on that point. I am keen to hear Nicola Dickie’s thoughts on it, too. Could the point about the criterion for 12-month multi-agency involvement be addressed—could we resolve that problem—entirely by revising the code of practice or would it require amending the legislation?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 13 March 2024

Ross Greer

Are you talking specifically about the need for 12 months of multi-agency, intense support, or are there other areas where the criteria do not quite match up with the reality of children’s needs?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 13 March 2024

Ross Greer

When families have used the tribunal process but have not had a CSP, is that because they have made a discrimination claim under the Equality Act 2010 or is it because they have made a placing request? How have they been able to access the tribunal?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 13 March 2024

Ross Greer

Does your office have a position on the solution? We are all now incredibly and wearily familiar with how hard it is to get a CSP and how few young people have them, and with the issues about getting a CSP but it still not making a difference. Does your office have a position on the need for the legislation to change, or is it an implementation issue? Alternatively, is it both, or both/and?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 13 March 2024

Ross Greer

I think that I saw Marie Harrison looking to come in, convener.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 13 March 2024

Ross Greer

Convener, can I just—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 13 March 2024

Ross Greer

I can see that Megan Farr is looking to come in. First, however, I want to follow up on that point. The cynical answer to the question why local authorities do not understand that is that they do understand it; they just do not want to implement CSPs.

In general, a child’s plan will be less resource intensive or will, at the very least, mean that the local authority is somewhat shielded from potential legal redress through the tribunal system. Is the cynical explanation fair, given the amount of information that has been provided over such a long period of time?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 13 March 2024

Ross Greer

At various points, everyone on the panel has been keen to talk about co-ordinated support plans, which you will all be delighted to know that we can now do.

Chloe Minto said that co-ordinated support plans are important because they open up the route for legal redress through the tribunal. This is my first question. Given that co-ordinated support plans are as rare as hens’ teeth—0.2 per cent of all pupils with a recognised additional need have such a plan—is it an issue that there are no other routes to access the tribunal? You can either fight really hard to get a CSP—the vast majority of children with additional support needs will not get one, though—or you can go for the somewhat nuclear option of trying to get a placing request and moving the child out of the mainstream school into a special school. Is there an issue, in that CSPs are the only route to access the tribunal while staying in a mainstream setting?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 13 March 2024

Ross Greer

I would like to pick up on a point that is somewhat tangential, but I hope that it will make a neat segue. A moment ago, Lynne Binnie acknowledged that the legislation on additional support needs in Scotland sets out a very broad definition of additional needs that is universally—certainly widely—supported. Not every child or young person with a recognised additional need will require a co-ordinated support plan, but you will be aware that the committee has heard evidence that only around 0.2 per cent of kids with recognised needs have such plans. I am interested in hearing Lynne Binnie’s and Nicola Dickie’s perspectives on that. Do you recognise the concerns that we have heard from others that that proportion is simply far too small, or is there a different explanation here? Is it appropriate that there are CSPs for the 1,000 or so kids with the most complex needs—is that the proportion that you would expect?