Chamber and committees

I am sorry. I meant Clare, not Carolyn. I have a question for you in a second, Carolyn. You are not getting off lightly.

Good morning. I want to focus specifically on small businesses in rural areas. I was conscious of the point that Carolyn Currie made about the feedback from Highlands and Islands Enterprise about business confidence levels among rural and remote businesses.

This morning, I have just had a message from a business in my South Scotland region. A butcher is highlighting the fact that for, for obvious reasons, energy costs are crippling his business, and he makes the point that, if his business goes, there will be no other butcher in the main street of his small town.

I will start with Stacey Dingwall. To what extent are the current business pressures having a disproportionate impact on small businesses in rural areas? Should the Government be considering a particular policy intervention specifically for those rural businesses?

Are you seeing a higher proportion of business failures—it is not a great phrase—among members in rural areas than among members in urban areas, or are they happening across the board?

I will put the same question to Fergus Mutch about the disproportionate impact on rural businesses and about any policy initiatives specifically for rural areas.

That is helpful. Carolyn, you mentioned the feedback from members and, in particular, from Highlands and Islands Enterprise. I am conscious that, in Dumfries and Galloway, where I live, 90 per cent of businesses are small businesses that employ 10 people or fewer. Can you say any more about the feedback that you have had from your rural business members?

South of Scotland Enterprise has highlighted that housing is the single biggest barrier to the growth of the economy in the south of Scotland, so your response is very helpful—thank you.

I turn to Carolyn Currie. You said that 40 per cent of businesses are owned by women. Is the percentage the same in rural areas? Do women in business in rural areas face specific barriers that women in other areas might not face?

I have just finished my comments, but I am happy to take an intervention.

The minister may not like to refer to chasing, but that is the reality of what we are talking about in relation to the bill. That will happen—there is no question about that. The debate is about a pack of hounds or two dogs, but that is, in effect, what will happen. Whether the dogs are flushing out or chasing, the point has been made several times that two dogs could become exhausted over a period of time. The wild mammal that is being flushed out, chased or whatever could become exhausted, too. There is no animal welfare argument for substituting two dogs.

That probably backs up my case. If it will not happen, why are you concerned about the bill making it an offence? Mr Fairlie says that we will never get a situation where two dogs will be used and then substituted effectively by another two dogs. I do not agree with him, but, if that is the case, there is no reason at all why we should not close the potential loophole in the bill and make it an offence for that to happen in the first place. Why would you be concerned about that?

I am disappointed that there is no support for amendment 113. The purpose of the bill is to close loopholes that were left open by the Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002 while avoiding any new loopholes. I believe that there is a potential loophole.

My amendments were designed to ensure that people who are hunting cannot, in effect, use multiple pairs of dogs, one after the other, to chase wild mammals. A relay would be needed only if those dogs were relentlessly pursuing a wild mammal over a long period of time. Excluding the word “relay” leaves that possibility open as a potential loophole that could be exploited.

I am not convinced that a second or a third pair of dogs substituting for the first are not likely to chase the same quarry, and I am unsure how that would be enforced. I am not convinced that a second or a third pair of dogs would not continue in the same area, effectively chasing the same quarry.