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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 November 2024
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Displaying 1026 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 20 January 2022

Ben Macpherson

Those are two important questions, which I will touch on briefly just now. It might also be helpful for Mr Briggs if I get a response from Social Security Scotland as to our current position.

I have regular calls with senior members of Social Security Scotland staff and, from a very recent call, I can say that recruitment is going well—we are pleased with progress. Part of the recruitment is of health and social care staff and that has been progressing successfully. Wider engagement with health boards is also in a positive place. If it would be helpful for Mr Briggs and the committee more widely, I will elaborate on that further in an update in writing over and above what I have just said.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 20 January 2022

Ben Macpherson

I will bring in Niall Wilson in a moment, but first I will reemphasise what I have laid out this morning in my opening statement and onwards. The period of 28 days is a minimum, and it will be important for staff who engage with cases to take into consideration an individual’s circumstances. For example, if the individual says that they do not have the information or that they cannot provide it within the time period, that will be taken in good faith, which will ensure that adequate time is applied for the individual to provide the information that is required and for other work to be undertaken to help the individual to acquire what Social Security Scotland needs to make the decision.

I will now bring in Niall Wilson because he has considered the issue throughout the process of the regulations and since the passing of the Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 20 January 2022

Ben Macpherson

I appreciate that that question is relevant in this regard, but it is also, of course, relevant to the adult disability payment, which we will discuss next week. In the interests of time, and given that wider perspective, if Jeremy Balfour agrees, I would like to take that away and either update the committee on it next week or provide an answer in writing—whichever is preferable to the member and/or the committee. I will say, just for reassurance, that formal arrangements are, of course, in place on all those matters. I can elaborate on that either in writing or at a future meeting.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 20 January 2022

Ben Macpherson

I will bring officials in to clarify this absolutely, but I note that during that period the individual would receive short-term assistance—which, of course, is innovative and is provided here in Scotland but not in the DWP system. Niall Wilson will elaborate on that, briefly.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 20 January 2022

Ben Macpherson

I would be grateful if Emma Roddick could elaborate slightly on that, so that I am absolutely clear.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 20 January 2022

Ben Macpherson

Are you asking about the case transfer process to the child disability payment?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 20 January 2022

Ben Macpherson

Yes, we can confirm that today, convener. I will bring Kirsten Simonnet-Lefevre in to further clarify the position as well. In any circumstance where the individual’s entitlement is being questioned, they will of course be entitled to advocacy, as it will be available to all clients across Scotland who are certified as having a disability. The position is clear. I think that the point of dubiety from the committee this morning has been about the period of suspension; as Kirsten Simonnet-Lefevre has said, there is not a requirement for advocacy at that juncture. It is only if it progresses to the position of their entitlement being questioned that, of course, the right to advocacy will kick in.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 20 January 2022

Ben Macpherson

I will bring in Niall Wilson in a moment. The intention is to obtain the information as quickly as possible from the individual in order to assist them. Of course, the individual’s circumstances will be considered by the staff in Social Security Scotland who are making judgments on those matters. Niall, please will you provide further clarity?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 20 January 2022

Ben Macpherson

Thank you, convener, and good morning, members. As this is the first committee meeting that I have attended in 2022, I wish you all a happy new year, and—[Inaudible.]—Ms Don, too.

Colleagues, I am grateful for the opportunity to discuss with the committee the regulations, which reflect our continuing commitment to make improvements and to listen closely to stakeholders in order to provide a system that meets people’s needs.

The committee is aware of the Scottish Government’s strong commitment to promoting benefit take-up. The regulations are important in addressing the rare occasions when suspending assistance is beneficial for the individual involved and/or for the integrity of Scotland’s social security system. The Scottish Government is seeking to introduce the power to suspend assistance in a narrow set of circumstances in which doing so is vital to protect people who rely on our payments. Furthermore, the power is vital to ensure an efficient social security system for Scotland. The power to suspend assistance in a narrow set of circumstances will help to avoid unnecessary overpayments and will protect vulnerable individuals from the risk of abuse. Putting the measures in place is also part of being a responsible Government.

For clarity, I note that the regulations apply only to child disability payment and the Scottish child payment. We are seeking to introduce powers to suspend the adult disability payment in a narrow set of circumstances as part of the main regulations for that form of assistance, which we will be discussing next week.

It is important to recognise that we are not seeking or planning to take the same approach as the Department for Work and Pensions is taking on suspensions. Let me be very clear: the regulations are not intended to have a punitive effect or to make clients worse off. We have consistently chosen to limit the circumstances in which we can suspend assistance.

The regulations enable us to suspend payments if an individual fails to provide, within a reasonable and appropriate time period, the information that we need in order to decide whether they should get child disability payment or the Scottish child payment. In accordance with social security guidance, individuals will have a minimum of 28 days to provide information. Moreover, when we request information, we will encourage individuals to ask for more time to provide information if they need it.

Stakeholders including the Child Poverty Action Group, Citizens Advice Scotland and Inclusion Scotland told us of the importance of suspending payments in the circumstances that are covered by the regulations, because some vulnerable individuals might not take action until they see that their payments—[Inaudible.]. However, suspending payment, rather than ending assistance, ensures that individuals have a better opportunity to engage with Social Security Scotland and do not immediately lose their entitlement.

The regulations also allow for suspension of payment in cases in which ministers pay assistance to a third party. That could be done to protect someone from the risk of financial abuse or of the third party being unable to continue receiving payments. Child disability payment may also be suspended when a third party receives payment but is not engaging with Social Security Scotland when the child turns 16 and becomes responsible for managing their own entitlement.

The regulations introduce a number of key safeguards, including the right to request a review of the decision to suspend payment. Our case managers must also consider the individual’s financial circumstances before deciding to suspend payment. That is essential to avoid unnecessary hardship.

In addition to the provisions on suspension of assistance, we have taken the opportunity to make minor miscellaneous amendments to the child disability payment and the Scottish child payment regulations in order to give full effect to the original policy intent.

I welcome the opportunity to assist the committee with its consideration of the regulations, and I look forward to answering any questions that members might have.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 20 January 2022

Ben Macpherson

I fully sympathise with that—those are important points. We have a wider commitment to external communications being inclusive and easy to understand for the people who access the service and the public more widely. I confirm that the guidance will be in that style and form so that people can easily understand it.

The detailed decision-making guidance has been prepared, but it is being quality reviewed and it is going through various processes to ensure that it is as it needs to be. As I said, it will be published publicly once it is finalised. To be as expedient as possible in keeping the committee up to speed, I am happy to commit to officials updating the committee as soon as a publication date is set and then to be forthcoming in providing an appropriate copy and a link to where the guidance is found in the public domain.