Chamber and committees

Thank you for the question. Yes, I do feel that. The feedback from Bill Scott to the committee on 16 December, on the difference that the local delivery teams have made in delivery of CDP and in helping people to make their applications, was powerful. It will be the same for the adult disability payment. The pandemic and the restrictions have, of course, had an impact on, for example, local delivery teams offering face-to-face assistance in community settings or people’s homes. However as restrictions ease, those things will have more prominence. Local delivery teams being within local authorities is making an impact when people apply; it is a significant improvement that has been introduced in the Scottish social security system and it is making a positive difference in communities.

We have prioritised awards to clients who are between 15 and a half and 18 and are transferring from child disability payment to adult disability payment in order that we can ensure that they will be receiving child disability payments and can be supported by Social Security Scotland when it is time for them to transition. That minimises the need for people who require an appointee on turning 16 to have to go through two appointee processes—one with the DWP and another with SSS—when their awards are transferred. We also decided to prioritise people who meet the special rules for terminal illness in order to ensure that they can avail themselves of our more generous eligibility rules as soon as possible.

We are still working with the DWP to determine how we will prioritise the awards of clients who are under 15 and a half, but we will do so in a way that best minimises the biggest impacts for those who are staying within the DWP system. I hope that that is helpful.

I do not want to be definitive and say that it has never come up, but it was not a point of negotiation, because in order to deliver the adult disability payment safely and securely, the discussions had to take place prior to my appointment. The engagement around the adult disability payment has been on-going for some time. Its introduction was unfortunately delayed due to the pandemic, because the DWP had to reprioritise resources, and the Scottish Government and Scotland as a whole had to deal with the pandemic situation. The decisions were part of considerations, negotiations and discussions in the past period.

The child disability payment, which is already in place, is a significant move and a change that has already been undertaken. As I said, as younger people in the child disability payment system reach the age of 16 and in that period between the age of 16 and 18, there will be significantly improved support and awareness of how they go through the process of applying for the adult disability payment.

I will bring in Janet Richardson to talk about that from the agency side, but the Government is in a healthy place in relation to the promotion of our benefits more widely. We have had collective discussions with the committee and the Parliament on the importance of the benefit take-up strategy and using all communication methods and networks to raise awareness of the social security support that is available. However, there is always more that we can do. When the adult disability payment is launched—if Parliament chooses to pass the regulations, as I hope it will—that will be another opportunity for us all, in every constituency and region, to promote the new benefit and encourage people to apply for the support if they need it and are entitled to it, because we want them to get it.

That is an important question. I thank you for the important words about where we are with the adult disability payment.

The question was about how we keep an eye on rising costs that need to be paid alongside the duty to take up and promote ADP and other benefits. Fellow ministers and I are absolutely clear that social security is a human right and are, therefore, committed to ensuring that everyone who is entitled to support from our system can receive it.

Our “Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018: Benefit Take-up Strategy—October 2021” details how we will encourage and support people to overcome barriers to accessing support. Of course, we have a duty to promote take-up regardless of how much is being spent on the adult disability payment. That duty is in the Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018.

Many of the improvements that we are making to the application and decision-making processes are intended to remove barriers to applying for disability benefits that currently exist in the system. We will promote and make the process more accessible. We will make it more straightforward and we will help people on their journeys, through our advocacy service and through our local delivery teams.

There is a real shift in consciousness from the approach of the Department for Work and Pensions and experiences that people have had, in respect of benefits having previously attracted a completely unjust and unethical stigma that we all need now to knock away. We want to remove stigma and we want to promote take-up. We want to encourage people to get the support that they need, because a social security system that exists to support people, that is accessible and that is delivering is good. It is good not just for the person who receives the award to which they are entitled, but for society as a whole, as we create a fairer society together. It is also good in relation to distribution in the economy—the fiscal impact and multiplier effect that it can have on the economy.

That is not the most important thing, though. The most important thing is that people get the support that they are entitled to, so we are very committed—I hope that you feel that from what I have said—to encouraging people and helping people to get that support.

Again, I will try to respond to as many of those questions as I can. If Pam Duncan-Glancy wants to raise at the end of my remarks any questions on subjects that I have not managed to cover, I will be happy to have them re-posed.

I have to challenge the question about picking up the pace, because I think that it is extremely unfair, given the delivery and what the agency is undertaking. It lacks appreciation of the situation that we have been in with the pandemic and the fact that we are in a hybrid system where we have to deliver the new benefits, which requires significant engagement with the DWP, but also undertake case transfer.

I appreciate the evidence that the committee has heard. I listened carefully to what Bill Scott and others said. I had significant respect for him throughout my time on the committee. However, the pace of what Social Security Scotland has delivered has been remarkable. We have a really strong agency that is performing, and it has delivered well. In the Scottish child payment, it has delivered a new benefit that was not expected. The payment was created by the Scottish Government and delivered by the agency in a very short period, and I know that the Parliament strongly supports it. We will double the payment from April and we are working towards rolling it out for under-16s from the end of this year, provided that we get the data from the DWP.

I think that talking the achievement of Social Security Scotland down does no good for the collective determination that I know exists in the committee and across the Parliament for the agency to be a success. The agency is delivering strongly and it will deliver the adult disability payment strongly as well. We can all be ambitious and want to do more, but we also need to be realistic about what can be achieved in the dual process in which we have to undertake case transfer as quickly as we can.

Building a new agency and delivering a new service in the way that we have done is an extremely complex process that involves building information technology infrastructure, transferring data, engagement between two Governments, making sure that we adhere to all the legislative requirements, making sure that we have all the checks and balances in place, and making sure that we have all the people in place. It is a significant exercise. The reason why Social Security Scotland and the Scottish Government directorate have recently won awards for their achievements is that remarkable progress has been made in the delivery of Social Security Scotland, and the adult disability payment is a significant and key next step.

I will bring in Nathan Gale to talk about the fact that the changes that we are making will make a significant difference and are not just cosmetic. First, however, I will touch on some points about case transfer, because I know that there is significant interest in that, and understandably so. Members will be aware from my letter yesterday that the case transfer process is such that those who will be approaching a reassessment will be prioritised. A PIP reassessment will be prioritised so that they are naturally case transferred into our system. We cannot consider cases retrospectively, because the adult disability payment did not exist when people were reassessed for PIP in months or years past. Of course, if people want to make an application for the adult disability payment when it is rolled out, they will be absolutely entitled to do that.

Pam Duncan-Glancy asked, rightly, whether there will be a campaign to promote the adult disability payment. As members know, through our benefit take-up strategy and our various initiatives, we continuously promote people applying for all the benefits that they are entitled to. One of the key differences in the Scottish social security system is that we want people to get the benefits that they are entitled to. We are proactively promoting the take-up of benefits because we believe that social security is a human right, that it is a collective investment in ourselves and one another, and that it benefits us all by building a fairer society for everyone. We will continue to be proactive in encouraging people to apply.

I would be grateful if Nathan Gale could make some points on the significant changes that we are making.

We have selected for the first pilot the same areas as we used for the child disability payment, because they represent a mixture of urban and rural geography. Using the same local authorities for phase 1 of the pilot for adult disability payment enables us to build on the working relationships and constructive engagement that we have had with Perth and Kinross, Dundee and the Western Isles local authorities.

I should put on the record that we are incredibly grateful for all the engagement that we have had with local authorities, health boards and others on delivery of the adult disability payment and all our benefits.

After phase 1, of course, the phases of the adult disability payment will include significantly more local authority areas. We have created the programme in a way that considers geographical spread and builds on our commitment to delivering things safely and securely, and to making sure that we continue to build the system up. When it all happens at the end of August, we will have undertaken a significant amount of work, with local authorities being engaged in the system already and our being in a strong position to roll out the service nationally.

Just for clarity, I presume that Mr Briggs is talking about local delivery teams, which of course are active now. They are operating in community hubs and, with due consideration of the recent pandemic restrictions, they have already been giving clients face-to-face assistance for CDP, and they stand ready to that for ADP.

I will bring Janet Richardson in, in a moment, to talk about the agency perspective, but I emphasise that the local delivery team service is already up and running. Janet, could you elaborate further, please?

We are confident, given that the process for case transfer for child disability payment is operating well. The adult disability payment is a significant undertaking. It is estimated that initially we will have around 7,000 applications for transfer per month. We will then look to ramp that up as we get the system under way and gain more experience and confidence with the processes, and as we ensure that everything is running properly for the safe and secure transfer. We continue to be determined to deliver the case transfer for all benefits by 2025—that is our aspiration—and particularly, of course, for adult disability payment.

Good morning. Welcome to the committee, convener, and congratulations on your new role.

Thank you for inviting me to give evidence on these important regulations, which, if passed, will introduce the adult disability payment in Scotland. The adult disability payment will be the 12th benefit to be administered by Social Security Scotland and it is the biggest and most complex undertaking for the organisation to date.

I strongly believe that the regulations deliver on the principles of the Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018 and the Scottish social security charter. That is in large part due to the extensive input of a range of organisations and individual disabled people across the country and I take this opportunity to thank all those whose contributions have helped to shape the adult disability payment. I am also immensely grateful to the members of the Scottish Commission on Social Security, who have given generously of their time and engaged openly with me and officials. SCOSS has made a number of insightful recommendations on the regulations, almost all of which the Government has accepted.

The regulations enable the Scottish Government and Social Security Scotland to commence the delivery of the adult disability payment for new applicants from 21 March, initially in Perthshire and Kinross, Dundee and the Western Isles. We will then introduce the adult disability payment across two further pilot phases, before rolling it out nationally on 29 August.

Critically, the passage of the regulations will enable us to take a very different approach to delivering disability assistance, developed around our principles of dignity, fairness and respect. We will put an end to the stress and anxiety of private sector assessments. There will be no undignified physical and mental examinations. We will end the stressful cycle of unnecessary re-assessments and the adversarial approach of the Department for Work and Pensions. In contrast, we are introducing a system that is rooted in trust and supported by the input of suitably qualified in-house health and social care practitioners. We are funding an independent advocacy service that will support people to access social security throughout their journey.

Only one piece of information will be sought from a formal source to support the general care and mobility needs in a person’s application. The onus of collecting that information will be on Social Security Scotland. Equal weight will be given to all sources of information, including from the people who know a client best: their friends, family and informal support network. Applications from people with a terminal illness will be fast tracked so that they can access the support that they need and are entitled to as quickly as possible.

Overall, the experience of applying for and receiving the adult disability payment will be fundamentally different from the current DWP experience. If the regulations are not passed, people will not be able to benefit from the significant improvements that we intend to make. People would be left on the personal independence payment for longer and potentially subjected to the indignity and anxiety of private sector assessments. It is crucial that the Parliament agrees to the regulations.

We intend to begin the case transfer of PIP awards to the adult disability payment when it launches nationally in August. The case transfer of approximately 300,000 disability benefit awards from the Department for Work and Pensions to Social Security Scotland is an unprecedented exercise both in scale and complexity. We have, therefore, consistently prioritised the safe and secure delivery of the adult disability payment. That approach has been supported by SCOSS, the Disability and Carers Benefits Expert Advisory Group, DACBEAG, and by many responses to our public consultations on disability assistance and the adult disability payment.

We have focused on making changes that will have the greatest positive impact on how people experience accessing support, while not risking the safe and secure delivery of that support. That is why the rules for the adult disability payment will be broadly the same as those for PIP during the transition period. I want to stress, though, that what will be delivered on day one will be significantly different from how people experience the DWP and is not the limit of the Scottish ministers’ aspirations.

We have already announced an independent review of the adult disability payment that will be carried out in two stages. The initial stage will commence later this year and will look at mobility criteria. The full adult disability payment framework will be considered during the second stage of the review, beginning in summer 2023.

In conclusion, I remain confident and determined that, from day one, the adult disability payment will deliver a new and much improved experience for disabled people and those with long-term health conditions. That experience will reflect the human right to social security and the ethos of dignity, fairness and respect that is at the heart of the new system that we are creating and delivering.

I welcome the opportunity to assist the committee in its consideration of the regulations and I am very happy take any questions that members might have.

I thank Pam Duncan-Glancy for her engagement and for her recognition of the significant changes that are being made.

On the points raised about our being constrained in the process of considering the eligibility criteria and the adequacy of the support, I refer to my opening statement. As I said, we have two workstreams working in tandem currently. We are launching a new benefit for applications and undertaking significant case transfer, which is unprecedented in its complexity. We must ensure that those who are receiving the new adult disability payment and those who are being transferred under the case transfer process from August receive the same amounts and are subject to the same criteria for assessment. That is about equality and parity. We have to ensure that, while in this tandem workstream, we are treating people the same and do not have a two-tier system.

I talked about the review earlier. I want to re-emphasise the important point that we recognise that, once case transfer has been completed, we should consider together—as a society and as a Parliament—what changes we should make at that juncture and consider what people’s experience has been of the adult disability payment. Once there has been experience of the new system, we will receive, through the review, information on what people’s perceptions and experience of the process have been.

We appreciate that we have heard, time and again over recent years, that the PIP descriptors are not consistently applied to individuals, particularly those with mental health conditions, fluctuating conditions or learning disabilities. Numerous successful appeals to DWP show that the PIP criteria have been wrongly interpreted. For example, when an individual is asked whether they can complete an activity, either at application stage or during an assessment, DWP’s consideration of those issues has not been applied properly or consistently.

However, in our system, when an individual is asked whether they can complete an activity, either at application stage or during a consultation with Social Security Scotland or with a practitioner of Social Security Scotland, the full impact of an activity on the individual, including pain and fatigue, will be considered. We will be applying the reliability criteria properly and consistently. If someone tells us that they cannot walk a certain distance without losing balance, that means that they cannot walk that distance safely.

The changes that we are making to the delivery of the adult disability payment, such as providing additional application channels and replacing assessments with person-centred consultations, are intended to address many of the concerns that people rightly have about how mobility criteria are applied. We will monitor the impact of the changes on awards and collect feedback from clients and stakeholders, as I have said. We cannot know for certain what the impacts of the improvements that we are making will be until we commence delivery. That is why it is important that we have the pilot and the review.

The Scottish Fiscal Commission has projected that we will spend more on the adult disability payment because of the way in which we are delivering it. That is an indication that the commission believes that more people will be successful in obtaining awards.

Now is not the time to be definitive on particular parts of the eligibility criteria and on whether they should change once we have undertaken the review. We will undertake the review and see what people’s experiences are of the new system. We can consider together the recommendations of the review and what change we could or should make once we emerge from the process of the twin set of workstreams, in which we will be in shortly, of delivering the new benefit and case transfer at the same time.