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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 November 2024
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Displaying 1026 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Ben Macpherson

I thank Marie McNair for those important questions. We have had no indication from UK ministers in the DWP or the Treasury of an intention to uprate above the September CPI figure of 3.1 per cent. Of course, we would encourage them to do so. In the regulations that we are laying, we have set out our intention and determination to uprate the six social security benefits that we can fully determine by 6 per cent. Of course, we are increasing the Scottish child payment by 100 per cent.

We are doing what we can, with the powers and resources that we have, to provide assistance. I would encourage the UK Government to also do the right thing and uprate social security benefits across the UK, especially in the areas where there is the current dual process of delivery and introduction by the Scottish Government and case transfer with regard to disability benefits—in particular, the child disability payment and the adult disability payment.

I would encourage the UK Government to increase PIP and the disability living allowance for working-age adults above 3.1 per cent and to look again at universal credit. The case for increasing universal credit and the other benefits that it controls is compelling and I hope that the UK Government does the right thing in the March statement.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Ben Macpherson

I will come to those two points in turn. Of course, the regulations that were based on the September CPI rate followed the position that had been taken in previous years since we introduced the social security benefits—of uprating on that basis. The rising cost of living pressures that we saw before the invasion of Ukraine and have seen since it have, of course, changed the situation for all of us, and in particular for lower-income households and unpaid carers. The Government is committed to doing the right thing and helping people where we can. We therefore looked carefully at what we can do with our powers and our resources, and we have done what is necessary to ensure that we deliver the uprating.

With regard to the point about the social security benefits that are delivered under agency agreements, we cannot create a two-tier system. We will have people in the Scottish system and people in the reserved system until they transfer to the Scottish system, particularly those on disability benefits. I appreciate Pam Duncan-Glancy’s position, but the Government is moving at pace to undertake the delivery of devolved social security and to transfer people into our system in a safe and secure way.

We have had—and, in fact, are still in—a pandemic, and that has made it challenging for us to do all this to our original timetable. As a result, the timetable has had to change not just for the Scottish Government but for the DWP. The fact that Social Security Scotland will launch its 12th benefit on Monday and that seven of those 12 benefits are new is pretty remarkable, as is the fact that we have done all this since 2018. We are building an institution and an organisation that needs to be strong not just in the period ahead but for years to come, and that will rely on having a strong foundation.

In an ideal world, we would, of course, have had everyone in our system quicker than has happened, but these things take time. It is not as if we get a USB stick from DWP and plug it into our computer; the process is much more complicated, and we are undertaking it with diligence and responsibility.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Ben Macpherson

It is not our intention that there will be a particular impact on those who access social security. As I said, we have decided to consider the cost as an absorbed cost and pressure within the social security budget.

I do not know whether Dominic Mellan or Simon Coote wants to add anything that might be helpful and appropriate.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Ben Macpherson

As the member will know and as the finance secretary has emphasised many times to Parliament, there is significant pressure on Scottish budget portfolios in the coming financial year. As I have said, we have, in this instance, identified resource that we can absorb within our budget, and we are continually looking to see where we can use resource efficiently and for the benefit of the people of Scotland. Internally, we have had to work hard to identify this resource and make it available, and we are glad that we have been able to do so, but I am not going to—and I am not able to—specify at this point whether other resource will be available in the course of the financial year. As the member knows, the budget is allocated, and over the subsequent financial year we go through the process of reconciliations and reconsideration of positions. However, I emphasise that the Scottish Government, all ministers, including me and the Cabinet Secretary, and Social Security Scotland consistently look at what resource is available and how it can be utilised to help the people of Scotland, particularly low-income households and unpaid carers on social security.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Ben Macpherson

There is no loss of flexibility in that regard. We set a budget allocation on projections, which involves the Scottish Fiscal Commission. We also project based on the fact that we will be encouraging people to take up benefits. As you know from the Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018 and Scottish Government policy intention and documentation, we are strongly committed to promoting benefit take-up and undertaking what is necessary for that. We have had good discussions at the committee on how we collectively can all play our part in promoting benefit take-up. That becomes even more pertinent in the period ahead.

I call again on all members to work with the Government and the different public bodies involved in that collaborative effort to raise awareness in communities of what support is available, encourage people to apply if they think that they might be eligible and tell their friends and neighbours about it so that we can spread the word about what support exists. Some of the benefits that we will be promoting are ones that we intend to uprate by 6 per cent, as I have set out.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Ben Macpherson

I saw some of the previous session. I am happy to correspond with the committee on those important points that Mr Briggs raises. It is a question not only for social security ministers but for the finance portfolio, so there is a question about how the committee might want to consider those points.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Ben Macpherson

I am not fully clear on the specifics of your question, so I hope that this generic answer will suffice, but please let me know if you have any further points.

On cost of living support, Ms Forbes took action with regard to the council tax position just a number of weeks ago. We have the council tax reduction scheme, the Scottish welfare fund—which we are still making a significant investment in—and the mitigation that we are undertaking with regard to the bedroom tax, which costs us tens of millions of pounds a year, so there are a number of different measures already in place to support people as much as we can.

The devolved social security system that we have, which I know the whole committee supports, allows us to get money to people and into their pockets. That is the real advantage of having that system and we will continue to develop it in a coherent and strong way for the period ahead and for decades to come.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Ben Macpherson

Thank you, convener, and good morning, colleagues.

I offer my sincere thanks to the convener and the committee for accommodating the last-minute changes to the scrutiny process for the Social Security (Up-rating) (Miscellaneous Amendment) (Scotland) Regulations 2022, which we were intending to cover today, as the convener said.

The committee will be aware of the cost of living pressures, which have grown significantly since we took the decision on uprating benefits some time ago as part of the Scottish budget process. We know that those pressures might yet rise further and that they will disproportionately impact the poorest households. That is why I decided to see what more could be done to support people using our social security powers.

I am now seeking to use the uprating regulations to provide that additional support, which will primarily help low-income families and unpaid carers. In order to do that, it is necessary to withdraw the previous regulations and lay them again under expedited procedures, which I am doing today. Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience that that causes. However, I am sure that the committee will understand the reasons for that, and I sincerely hope that it will support the relaid regulations.

I understand that the committee will now consider those regulations on 31 March but, given the interest that the committee will have in them, it is worth broadly outlining the changes now. Of course, I am happy to come back later in the month if the committee wishes me to do so.

I am proposing additional support by further increasing several forms of devolved social security benefits and assistance from the previous 3.1 per cent increase to the 6 per cent rate. That will apply to the job start payment, the young carer grant and funeral support. Subject to parliamentary approval, uprating will now be almost doubled for those benefits.

The best start grant will also be increased by 6 per cent, and there will be future regulations to increase the carers allowance supplement. We will also increase child winter heating assistance by 6 per cent—greater than the 5 per cent already proposed—to support 19,000 families of severely disabled children with heating costs.

As the committee is aware, we have already taken the decision to double the Scottish child payment from £10 a week to £20 a week—a 100 per cent increase—which will immediately benefit about 111,000 children.

In August 2021, we increased the best start foods payment from £4.25 to £4.50 a week. That 5.88 per cent rise exceeds the rate of inflation and is close to the 6 per cent uprating for other benefits, so there will be no change to that benefit.

I turn to the immediate task at hand. Today, the committee is considering the Social Security Up-rating (Scotland) Order 2022, which uprates benefits for which we have executive competence but which are currently administered by the DWP under an agency agreement on Scottish ministers’ behalf. It is important to note that we have no discretion around the level of uprating of those benefits. The agency agreements that are in place with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions that allow the DWP to deliver those benefits on behalf of Scottish ministers mean that we are committed to uprating them at the same rate as the DWP. They will therefore be uprated by 3.1 per cent, in line with the September consumer prices index. It is, however, a matter for the Scottish ministers to make an order to effect the uprating, which is what you see before you today.

I thank the committee again for its scrutiny of the uprating order and its forbearance, given the need for urgent changes to the uprating regulations. I look forward to any questions that the committee might have.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Ben Macpherson

I thank all members for their summing-up remarks. I listened attentively and with respect and good faith to all the points that have been made. I am grateful for and very much welcome the cross-party support. I appreciate the points that have been made by the Opposition parties, and I acknowledge their determination to see further change in the way that they wish to see it.

As I respect that, I ask them to respect this. We are in a hybrid system. We are undertaking two very important workstreams, launching the new benefit and undertaking case transfer. In that process, we have to ensure sure that we do not create a two-tier system. We have to undertake safe and secure delivery and have passporting agreements in place with the Department for Work and Pensions

Just as I ask members to respect the reality of the situation in the here and now, and although I appreciate their wish to see further change, I also ask that they acknowledge the changes that have been made to ensure that we provide the right reliability criteria consistently and properly in each case. We made changes to the application process so that it is more accessible and a better experience for people. We have made changes for people with a terminal illness, and changes to the assessment process so that there is no private sector involvement, no DWP-style assessments, no functional examinations, and the other changes that I have laid out in the course of the meeting.

This is a really important moment in the development of devolution and the delivery of our new social security system. By agreeing to the regulations, we are taking an important step, collectively, for the benefit of all our constituents, and also in creating a strong, robust, passionate, organised and structured system to deliver for people in our communities in the years ahead, with a strong foundation for further delivery in the years and decades to come.

I am grateful to colleagues for indicating their support for the regulations. I look forward to working with them as we progress into the next phase of delivering the adult disability payment and continuing to build our social security system here in Scotland.

11:15  

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Ben Macpherson

The independent review was announced by Shirley-Anne Somerville when she was Cabinet Secretary for Social Security, in recognition that, as we deliver the adult disability payment we want feedback and insight into how stakeholders believe the new system is performing. The review will also think ahead, to beyond the period of case transfer, when everyone in receipt of a disability benefit is in the Scottish social security system. It will consider what we can and should change, whether that is eligibility criteria or other considerations.

Of course, we are in not just a hybrid system with the UK Government, but a system in which we have two processes running in tandem. When we launch the adult disability payment, we will be both accepting new applications for ADP and simultaneously transferring into our system 300,000 individuals who are on PIP.

09:15  

The review is important—it is important that we have feedback on how people are experiencing the system. We plan to establish a review group, the members of which will be drawn from outside the Scottish Government, with the intention that the group will secure input from people with experience of applying for and receiving ADP. I appreciate that there will be a lot of interest in the review and I am determined that as many people as possible will have the opportunity to contribute to it. The review will be completely independent, so it would be wrong for me to pre-empt any recommendations. Planning and scoping work is already under way on the first stage of the review and I will provide a further update to the committee and the Parliament as soon as possible.

As I laid out in my letter to the committee on 17 December, the reason why we want the review to commence with consideration of the mobility criteria is that we are mindful of and respectful of the significant amount of evidence that the committee has received and the discussion that there has been about the mobility criteria. We want to make sure that we get the process of reviewing those considerations under way as quickly as we can.