Chamber and committees

Okay. Thank you.

Do you believe that the bill will lead to the Government being better prepared? Alternatively, is preparation not so much about legislation but about getting the work done and ensuring that things such as PPE are in place? I would have thought that the Government would not need to legislate for that.

Good morning. I note Professor Hunter’s comment that the military plans for previous rather than future wars.

Is there any evidence that there is a real need for the bill? Covid has exposed many issues, such as in health and social care in Scotland. Social care currently sits in chaos, and the Government is not being seen to act on that. Suddenly, however, the Government comes forward with the bill and says, “We need this legislation.”

What is your take on that? Has Covid exposed Government’s inability to respond quickly? Is there a need for the legislation, or is it—as many people have put it—a desperate power grab in order to shift the agenda away from the major weaknesses in public services?

Professor Elder, are you able to comment about the ability to collect data and understand the impact of those large—massive—waiting lists?

There is a thing called political balance.

It is not unreasonable to look for an extension of the powers for another period of time, given where we are, Deputy First Minister. If you were saying that you wanted the powers for ever more, that would be a different matter. That is why I welcome the announcement that work will be done on future pandemics.

Professor Leitch talked about possible variants. I worry that we are starting to get to a point where everybody thinks that the pandemic is over and we can get back to some kind of normality.

On the reports that are coming in the spring, are you considering a proposal for how we prepare and plan Scotland-wide? You say that you are talking to local authorities. Are we looking at regional approaches throughout Scotland so that we are prepared at a regional level?

Part of the evidence that we heard this morning from the Royal College of GPs was that, seven years on from the incorporation of health and social care into the integration joint boards, it is hit or miss at the local level as to whether services such as mental health and social work are joined up and working at the GP level. It is fine to have big, central plans, but we do not seem to be able to get them through on the ground and put in place a decentralised system of governance that delivers.

This week, we discovered that one in eight people in Scotland are on an NHS waiting list. Earlier in the meeting, I asked the health professionals what data is available on that so that we can understand the knock-on effects. I think that, a few weeks ago, Professor Leitch told me that most of the data on that should be available.

I gave the example of two constituents who needed a hip replacement and were suffering as a result. One of them was able to get together £15,500 and go and get it done privately—they are now sorted—while the other cannot afford that. That is having a knock-on effect on their mental health and so on.

What are we going to do about the waiting lists? Is regional planning being done health board by health board? How will we get the waiting lists down? How will we address the knock-on effects that these unacceptable waiting times are having on people’s health and wellbeing?

That is what I am trying to get at with regard to waiting lists—I am trying to understand what the impact is and how you measure it. On the example that you gave, I know someone who is on the waiting list for a hip replacement and who is in absolute agony, which is having a wider impact on their health. That has been made worse by one of their friends having been able to put together £15,000 to go away and have their hip replaced just like that. What I am trying to find out is how we as politicians and policy makers can understand the impact of one in eight people in Scotland being on an NHS waiting list.

I return to a point that Murdo Fraser was speaking about. Dr Thomson, my understanding is that it takes 11 years to train an emergency department consultant. I took the point that Professor Elder made about continuing to recruit from abroad. Given the pressures and the massive staffing shortages right now, is there any type of short-term activity that the Government should be undertaking to bridge the gap between the length of time that it takes to train a consultant and the problems that we have right now?

At this point, I believe that it is proportionate and reasonable for the Government to make the extension. We should not take our eye off the fact that we are not through this situation by any means. The longer term raises a different issue, and it is an issue that this and other committees will debate, but I do not think it is unreasonable to have a six-month extension.

Should we not be saying to each health board that they need to identify exactly what the demands are in their area and start to bring forward some kind of proposal for how they will meet those demands?