Chamber and committees

The next item of business is an evidence session on the Scottish Government’s 2022-23 budget. The budget was published on 9 December 2021 together with a resource spending review framework and the medium-term financial strategy. The stage 1 debate on the budget is expected to take place next week.

In today’s evidence session, we will concentrate on the areas of the budget within this committee’s remit. I welcome the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Economy, Kate Forbes MSP, who is joined by Scottish Government officials. Helena Gray is interim director of fair work, employability and skills; Richard Rollison is director for international trade and investment; and Kathleen Swift is head of the economic directorate finance unit.

As always, I ask members and witnesses to keep their questions and answers as concise as possible. I invite the cabinet secretary to make a short opening statement.

I have a supplementary question. The committee’s recommendations to the Government mentioned the need to encourage employers to invest in employees in order to develop the skills base. You have talked about employability programmes, but the committee has evidence that, while businesses are experiencing labour shortages, the skills gap has produced an issue. Who has responsibility for that? Is there a budget line to address the skills gap, which would help with our productivity levels and our sluggish economic growth?

I have a supplementary question on that. I think that the target is that there will be 300 employee-owned businesses by 2030. We are making slow progress towards that. Are there interim targets to drive that change? Has the work of Co-operative Development Scotland, which is delivered by Scottish Enterprise, been mainstreamed across Scottish Enterprise? Is the option to change to employee ownership or a co-operative model always considered when SE is looking to support a business?

That is helpful. Thank you. That brings us to the end of the evidence session. I thank the cabinet secretary and her officials for joining us today. We will move on to our next item of business. I suspend the meeting briefly to allow the changeover of witnesses.

I appreciate the tensions and frustrations that have built up around the bill. I asked last week’s witnesses about that, and they suggested that some of the Scottish Government’s requests, such as the ability to veto, would be unworkable and unrealistic. The UK Government would argue that it will take decisions in the best interests of the UK and that it will take Scottish interests into consideration. Do your concerns about that relate to a lack of clarity in the bill? It sounds as though there is distrust of the UK Government in relation to the statements that it has made. Are you seeking assurances that the UK Government will behave in the way that it has outlined when it comes to consideration of devolved Parliaments and nations?

You have talked about uncertainty because of the lack of guidance. Last week, although it was recognised that the bill could present opportunities for different subsidies within the UK, there was a concern that the uncertainty would lead to risk aversion, particularly in relation to whether public bodies decide to make any investments. Do you recognise those concerns?

Councillor Heddle, mention has been made of local authorities. Under the EU system, would local authorities typically apply for EU subsidies? I understand that such applications would go through the UK Government, but were you engaged in that scheme? Do you see any opportunities in the new model or do you share the concerns that have been expressed?

Good morning, and welcome to the first meeting in 2022 of the Economy and Fair Work Committee. Following advice that was issued by parliamentary authorities last month, the meeting will be held virtually.

Our first item of business is a decision on whether to take items 3 and 4 in private. Are members content to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Thank you. I will now bring in Fiona Hyslop, who will be followed by Alexander Burnett.

Thank you very much, Mr MacDonald.

Finally, Mr Peretz said in an answer that the judgments are quite political. I suppose that this question is, too. We will have the Minister for Business, Trade, Tourism and Enterprise in front of us next week. In recommending that we do not approve the legislative consent motion, the minister has said that the first concern is

“sweeping powers of the Secretary of State, which ignore the devolution settlement and do not grant the equivalent powers to Scottish Government and other devolved Administration Ministers.”

Is that a fair assessment of the bill, given the discussion that we have had this morning? I ask Professor Bell to comment first. One could argue that there is some hyperbolic language in there. If you strip that out, do you agree with the underlying concern that has been expressed by the Scottish Government?