Chamber and committees

I have a separate question, convener. Do you want to bring in Mark Ruskell on this issue, or can I move on?

We have heard about the importance of speed and scale in collaboration between the public sector, councils and private companies when it comes to co-investment in net zero schemes. The committee has heard that that will be key to delivering net zero. At the same time, the Economy and Fair Work Committee has heard about potential risk aversion in councils as a result of the centralising Subsidy Control Bill, which is going through Westminster. We need subsidy control, but we also need to ensure that the pace, ambition and clarity, as has been mentioned, and what can be delivered in local areas—[Inaudible.]—developed by the Scottish Government. That would be helpful in pushing ahead with the collaboration and co-investment of councils and businesses in net zero schemes at the speed and scale that we need.

I put that first of all to Tracy Black and then to Barry McCulloch.

Tim, I am very interested in what you said about looking at this from a systems point of view and not looking just at the separate sectors. Heat in buildings and the role of councils are the focus of a lot of our interest, but your point about the importance of looking at energy production and distribution as a package, as well as looking at what is useful in houses, is an interesting one. Is that the area that you were thinking about?

I will also ask my other question now, because I am conscious of the time. Will you talk about pension fund investment? People have said that the local authority pension funds could and should be investing in this area. What needs to change in order to encourage that? Is there a danger that the easier option is carbon offsetting and natural capital investment, as opposed to developing a partnership for decarbonisation?

Thank you; it would be good to hear back from you on that.

Barry, it would be good to hear from you with regard to small businesses that might be doing joint projects with councils that involve some kind of subsidy or incentive from the council. How do we avoid risk aversion for competition and subsidy issues?

Thank you.

Thank you. I am conscious of the time, so I will move on to Sandy Begbie. You were talking about potential equity release products and packages. You could perhaps see a mortgage modification product in the private sector, but in the public sector, when looking at local authorities and the securitisation of assets, are you looking at some kind of—dare I say it—private sector share in publicly owned stock? That would be a massive change for many local authorities, but do you see a risk-based approach on a city deal basis as a potential solution? Sandy, do you have any comments on that or on pensions?

Thank you. I will pass back to the convener.

Thank you—it was comprehensive. I ask Barry McCulloch the same question.

Liam Kerr said that the regulations are being delayed again. No—the regulations will be delayed only if the committee and the Parliament do not approve them.

The scheme is a hugely important one for tackling waste in Scotland. Undoubtedly, there have been some challenges and, indeed, disappointments along the way in trying to deliver it. However, in terms of innovation, the reach of the scheme and what it will deliver, I can tell the committee that, in my constituency, the supermarket chain Aldi has already introduced its first pilot deposit and return scheme.

Scotland wants us to get on with the scheme. Yes, we need to scrutinise it. I have listened to colleagues, and I recommend that the committee should take a strong line in scrutinising the development and implementation of the scheme. However, the Parliament has a duty and responsibility to tackle waste and to drive forward our agenda on net zero and wider environmental issues, and I strongly recommend that the committee should vote in favour of the statutory instrument.

Good morning, minister. I want to cover agriculture. In its submission on the Subsidy Control Bill, NFU Scotland has said:

“It is critical that devolved governments can continue to develop agricultural policies that suit the unique domestic needs and policy ambitions that are essential for rural businesses and the communities and the economies they underpin. The inclusion of agriculture in the Subsidy Control Bill could severely constrain this.

Safeguards are already in place to secure the integrity of the UK internal market through existing international commitments (WTO Agreement on Agriculture) and the UK controls”.

It also says:

“Agricultural policy is devolved and must not be re-nationalised via the back door by UK-wide subsidy control measures.”

Given that even the agricultural leadership of NFU Scotland is saying that, in terms of your discussions, why is the UK Government including agriculture when it is not normally put together with other subsidies and subsidy control measures? Why is that happening?