Chamber and committees

That is a great story and it is reflective of my experience as well. It is incredibly important—absolutely. Local places do not always give that support to children and young people, so it is crucial. What is the ceiling and what would you need to break it?

Good morning. I thank the witnesses for joining us today.

I will pick up on the point that Tara Lillis made about inequity in the system. Do the witnesses think that there is inequity in the current system?

Thank you. I have one other question, if there is time, convener. What is happening now to support pupils with additional support needs? Will the bill help that or make it more difficult? Is there anything about the bill that should change to support those pupils?

Good morning and thank you for your evidence so far. I want to pick up a little bit on John Mason’s points about the buildings but also to go back to the point that Ms Fallon made earlier about pastoral care and, specifically, the provision for people with additional support needs. The committee has received evidence on this. For example, PGL Travel said:

“the issue really arises around the ability to house young people with more severe disabilities overnight, facilities simply do not exist in enough numbers currently”.

Glasgow City Council said:

“The bill also needs to take into account children with ASN, who have complex needs and would require significant support, adaptations to centres, specialist equipment and adapted beds, as well as the additional costs”.

So you get the picture. I would be very keen—and I say this as someone who has been to outdoor residentials at school, which was obviously only last week. I really enjoyed it, and I am pleased to hear that we are not putting people in canoes now and seeing how they get on, because it is safe to say that I did not do well in a canoe. What is your response in general to the concerns about the reality of supporting the wide breadth of pupils you need to support?

I have one more question for you—I am sorry, but the story was so compelling. Who pays for the person to support Nevis, for example?

Matthew Sweeney, what are COSLA’s members’ views of the inequities and their impact?

I am not sure whether Andrew Bradshaw wanted to come in.

How are those barriers affecting your members currently?

I want to follow up on Professor Mannion’s point. My colleague George Adam said that we are sharing some personal experience; we are, and that is important.

In your submission, you lift the issue to the systemic. You say that

“systemic support for the schools, staff, communities and partner organisations that provide for outdoor learning”

would be needed. In the context of this part of the discussion, could you tell us a bit more about what that support might look like?

Good morning, and thank you for the information that you sent the committee ahead of today’s meeting. In the spirit of sharing, I will say that I also remember my school residential trip. As a disabled person, my experience was quite different. My school had to create a very different trip. You got to choose whether you would go to an outdoor centre and which of the activities you got involved in, none of which were really suitable for me as a wheelchair user. Therefore, the school created a separate option, and all the pupils from the mainstream school were also able to choose that option, which focused on drama and included an element of outdoor learning.

How well does residential learning, including outdoor learning, meet the needs of all pupils, including those with additional support needs? You have all said that the benefits are most keenly felt by more deprived socioeconomic groups, which is really useful information. How well could residential outdoor education meet the needs of all pupils?