Chamber and committees

Sorry, I know this is an interesting point, but I am going to have to bring in Fulton MacGregor.

I am going to bring in Pauline McNeill and then Fulton MacGregor, Sharon, but I will come back to you if there is time at the end.

Does what you have helpfully set out have a bearing on misconduct, performance and complaints, so that there is a direct link to the provisions of the bill?

In your submission, there is quite a lot of reference to the perspectives and reflections of the victims whom you support. Could you outline what their reflections were on the point about a code of ethics?

That is very interesting to hear. I will open questions up to members.

Good morning, and welcome to the 17th meeting in 2024 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have apologies this morning from John Swinney.

Today, we continue our stage 1 evidence taking on the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill. I welcome Stephanie Griffin, Scotland policy manager with the Equality and Human Rights Commission; Dr Genevieve Lennon from the Scottish Institute for Policing Research; and Kate Wallace, chief executive at Victim Support Scotland. Thank you all for taking the time to attend today’s meeting; it is greatly appreciated.

I refer members to papers 1 to 3. I intend to allow around an hour and 20 minutes for this evidence session. I will kick things off with a question on the code of ethics. Quite a bit of the evidence that has been submitted to the committee refers to not just the establishment of a code of ethics and support for that, but the need to make sure that compliance and the effectiveness of such a code is monitored.

I note that the Equality and Human Rights Commission’s original response to the Justice Sub-Committee on Policing’s call for views referenced the recommendations that were made in Elish Angiolini’s review around equality training for police officers and/or staff and that it should, at a minimum, include learning around protected characteristics, acceptable behaviour, the risk of ignoring inappropriate behaviour and so on. I know that training is not a specific provision within the bill, but nonetheless it relates to the provisions around the code of ethics and how Police Scotland ensures that officers and staff are equipped as much as they can be with the knowledge, understanding and skills that they need to comply with a code of ethics. That was teased out a little bit in the SIPR submission as well.

Stephanie Griffin, can you say a bit more about the Equality and Human Rights Commission’s views on the code of ethics and how it can be monitored to ensure it is working effectively?

I have a question for Stephanie Griffin. I am interested in the public sector equality duty in the context of the bill. Do you have any concerns about how the public sector equality duty is implemented, adhered to and complied with in the context of police conduct and complaints? I know that that is a very general question, but an example might be what happens in relation to protected characteristics. I am interested in knowing whether there is anything that you feel it would be appropriate to raise in the context of the provisions of the bill that we are discussing.

I would like to pick up on one point. Is Police Scotland able to comply with the 35-day timeframe for hearings? Is that manageable?

Our main item of business is to take evidence on the progress being made to tackle drug harm and reduce drug deaths. I am pleased to welcome our first panel of witnesses: Kirsten Horsburgh, chief executive officer of the Scottish Drugs Forum; Justina Murray, chief executive officer of Scottish Families Affected by Alcohol and Drugs; and Dr Emma Fletcher, director of NHS Tayside public health and chair of Dundee alcohol and drug partnership. I refer members to papers 1 and 2 and thank witnesses for providing helpful written submissions.

As ever, we move straight to questions. I will get things under way. I would like to ask individual questions, and I come to Kirsten Horsburgh first with what is probably a bit of a big question. Reporting in the media today is highlighting the latest figures, which suggest that the number of drug-related deaths has, again, increased, but that there has been a significant decrease in the number of hospital admissions. What is that telling us and how do we need to respond?

You mentioned issues such as housing and employment. I noticed that you outlined in your submission that the

“vast majority of people who are affected by drug death experience multiple severe disadvantages”.

Perhaps more work is required to address that as a single approach.